www.photomacrography.net :: View topic - Need Advice For A 5X Microscope Lens
www.photomacrography.net Forum Index
An online community dedicated to the practices of photomacrography, close-up and macro photography, and photomicrography.
Photomacrography Front Page Amateurmicrography Front Page
Old Forums/Galleries
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Need Advice For A 5X Microscope Lens
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Equipment Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 307
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject: Need Advice For A 5X Microscope Lens Reply with quote

The budget is about 200usd.

I want to buy the best one I can so I need your advice, please support because there are many lenses in this price range so I am confused.

Thank you.
_________________
Regards.
Omer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 995

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I assume this is for focus stacking and not just for transmitted light microscopy? Any more requirements such as minimum working distance or camera sensor size? Are you prepared to use a tube lens? Would a 4x also be OK?

Regards, Ichty
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 307
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Itchy;

Yes I need this lens for focus stacking.
I have a Canon 100D and a Sony A7RII
Currently using Componon-s 50 enlarger lens.
In the past I used Mitty 5X,10X and 20X lenses.
I use Raynox DCR150 as a tube lens.
But finite lenses are also OK I already have bellows.
4X is also OK.

Thank you.
_________________
Regards.
Omer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 307
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about Laowa 25mm 2.5X-5X lens?
Do you have any experience with it?
_________________
Regards.
Omer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ichthyophthirius



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 995

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Omer,

Thanks for the clarifications. I see you're considering camera/repro lenses as well, which is outside my expertise. Hopefully the others will be able to give you advice!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
Posts: 632
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Laowa 25mm is a solid lens, check out my review: https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/23/laowa-venus-optics-25mm-f-2-8-ultra-macro-lens-long-term-review/

Performance test:
https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2020/02/25/laowa-25mm-f2-8-ultra-macro-image-quality-analysis-ver-1-0/

Pros:
- Small
- Good image quality, only slightly shadowed by the Mit 5x when at 5x
- Cheap
- Works on every consumer camera, good if you have multiple systems

Cons:
- Distortion could be better
- Some LoCA, disappears with stacking
- Some might find lack of aperture control troubling, I personally don't care

Disclaimer: I received an engineering unit from Laowa, review is personal opinion, not sponsored.

Laowa is looking to release another variable magnification lens that goes farther than 5x.
_________________
Personal Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/133023063@N04/
Blog still under construction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 4264
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also really like the Laowa, with excellent image quality especially at lower magnifcations but also good at 4x and 5x. The ability to zoom is really valuable.

Edit-- I meant that I like the Laowa 2.5x -5x .
_________________
Lou Jost
www.ecomingafoundation.wordpress.com
www.loujost.com


Last edited by Lou Jost on Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 307
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Hi Omer,

Thanks for the clarifications. I see you're considering camera/repro lenses as well, which is outside my expertise. Hopefully the others will be able to give you advice!


Thank you Itchy!

Quote:

The Laowa 25mm is a solid lens, check out my review: https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/23/laowa-venus-optics-25mm-f-2-8-ultra-macro-lens-long-term-review/

Performance test:
https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2020/02/25/laowa-25mm-f2-8-ultra-macro-image-quality-analysis-ver-1-0/

Pros:
- Small
- Good image quality, only slightly shadowed by the Mit 5x when at 5x
- Cheap
- Works on every consumer camera, good if you have multiple systems

Cons:
- Distortion could be better
- Some LoCA, disappears with stacking
- Some might find lack of aperture control troubling, I personally don't care

Disclaimer: I received an engineering unit from Laowa, review is personal opinion, not sponsored.


Hi Macro_Cosmos;

I already red your review it was very nice and detailed.

When I was investigating Laowa 25mm I faced a comment it was;

''It is just a normal lens with an variable extension tube, I can take same photos with my reversed Nikon 28 AIS''

Of course there is no proof but after reading this comment I decided to stop purchasing and investigate a bit more.

Can I get same picture quality of Laowa with any enlarger lens or reversed lens?
_________________
Regards.
Omer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 4264
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lonepal, the person who wrote that comment does not know what he or she is talking about. The Laowa 2.5x-5x lens is a highly specialized design with very thick elements unlike any normal wide angle lens I know, and is well corrected for macro work. Its best aperture is almost fully open, which is extremely unusual in any lens.

For particular fixed magnifications, there are some enlarger lens + tube lens combos that could be better. See Robert O'Toole's tests here and at www.closeuphotography.com.
But the ease of adjusting the FOV of the Laowa is very convenient and depending on your application, it may outweigs the small difference in image quality.
_________________
Lou Jost
www.ecomingafoundation.wordpress.com
www.loujost.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 307
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
lonepal, the person who wrote that comment does not know what he or she is talking about. The Laowa 2.5x-5x lens is a highly specialized design with very thick elements unlike any normal wide angle lens I know, and is well corrected for macro work. Its best aperture is almost fully open, which is extremely unusual in any lens.

For particular fixed magnifications, there are some enlarger lens + tube lens combos that could be better. See Robert O'Toole's tests here and at www.closeuphotography.com.
But the ease of adjusting the FOV of the Laowa is very convenient and depending on your application, it may outweigs the small difference in image quality.


Hi Lou;

I already follow Robert's tests closely but I can not buy most of the optics unluckyly ( I live at Turkey). But I can get a Laowa easily.

In the past I used Canon MP-E 65 for a short perioad.
As I understood the IQ of Laowa is a bit behind Mitutoyo 5X and this means the IQ is better than MP-E at same magnifications right?
_________________
Regards.
Omer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adalbert



Joined: 30 Nov 2015
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Omer,
finite: CZJ 6.3 Semiplan
infinite: Nikon BE Plan 4x
BTW, what about the Mitties you used in the past?
BR, ADi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
Posts: 4264
Location: Ecuador

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"As I understood the IQ of Laowa is a bit behind Mitutoyo 5X and this means the IQ is better than MP-E at same magnifications right?"


I don't have an MP-E but people who have tested them both on the internet say that the Laowa is better. It is also easier to work with because of its narrow front element compared to the MP-E
_________________
Lou Jost
www.ecomingafoundation.wordpress.com
www.loujost.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lonepal



Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 307
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adalbert wrote:
Hello Omer,
finite: CZJ 6.3 Semiplan
infinite: Nikon BE Plan 4x
BTW, what about the Mitties you used in the past?
BR, ADi


Thanks Adalbert;

I already sold them 3 years ago because of another investment.
_________________
Regards.
Omer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
Posts: 632
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lonepal wrote:

Hi Macro_Cosmos;

I already red your review it was very nice and detailed.

Glad you liked it! I should finish the image analysis given the quarantines going on.

lonepal wrote:

When I was investigating Laowa 25mm I faced a comment it was;

''It is just a normal lens with an variable extension tube, I can take same photos with my reversed Nikon 28 AIS''

Whoever made that comment is delusional and frankly...
No it's not a "normal lens with an extension tube". That would imply there's only elements on the front and the rest of the lens is some kind of empty barrel. Absolutely not the case.

The design is far more specialised and sophisticated. I guess the 2 groups near the rear act as a relay lens, and magnification is achieved through altering the distance between the relay lens and the 2 groups at the front. The relay lens at the rear isn't focused to infinity of course, or else magnification won't change.

There's 10 elements in 5 groups, many which are really thick glass.

lonepal wrote:
Can I get same picture quality of Laowa with any enlarger lens or reversed lens?

With any enlarger lens? At specific magnifications, maybe you'll get better images depending on how good the enlarger lens is. However, if the enlarger lens does match the Laowa, it likely won't be consistently good as one magnifies, and it will definitely come with a hefty pricetag. The Apo-El-Nikkor 105mm is really good, it's also $4000+. If you use specialised line scanner lenses at the correct magnification, you can definitely get better images.

If you would like to couple lenses, you can get very good results. Robert, friend and forum user has tested lots of combinations:
https://www.closeuphotography.com/

The combinations can get expensive real quick, since many lenses are rather scarce.
_________________
Personal Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/133023063@N04/
Blog still under construction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
Posts: 632
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I chimed in to today's Laowa stream, which features Laowa himself (CEO of the company and optical engineer, Laowa is his ID on the internet, also company's name).

He was kind and explained briefly on how the 25mm 2.5-5x functions.

The lens achieves its magnification by moving lens groups.
I guess it's kind of like changing the magnification of an objective lens by shifting the tube lens? Not sure.

Laowa did clarify on the choice of focal length.

The FL is a consequence of hand holding being considered, not a "reversed wide angle lens with a variable extension tube". If we look at the lens' optical layout which can be found on Laowa's website, that's clearly not the case.

Choosing a shorter FL allow hand movements to be less exaggerated. Think of it as using a spear trying to hit a target, let's say an apple sitting on a fence post.

With a 2.5m long spear, it won't be too difficult.
With a very long spear, let's say 8.5m, or even 20m, it will be difficult to hit the apple, as small amounts of movements on the users' end is amplified. Think of this as a lever mechanism.

Now, the target is an insect, and the photographer is using a lens trying to capture it. The view from the camera is limited, 25mm makes it easier to find the insect in the frame, with less exaggerated movements, as compared to 65mm, 85mm or 200mm.

Laowa gathered information from macro shooters to decide on the FL. I will be doing the same here on a "maybe" lens.
_________________
Personal Flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/133023063@N04/
Blog still under construction
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.photomacrography.net Forum Index -> Equipment Discussions All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group