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Wide angle set-up for close up or macro
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edouardm



Joined: 19 Dec 2016
Posts: 11
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:41 am    Post subject: Wide angle set-up for close up or macro Reply with quote

Hi, I would be highly interested in shooting wide angle close-up or macro... any thoughts ?
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Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
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Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind being more specific?

Most wide angle lenses on the market can get quite close. You'd get perhaps 1:5 but the perspective distortion will make the subject absolutely massive.

Get the Laowa 15mm F4 1:1 Macro lens, it's the widest lens that offers 1:1 reproduction ratio on FX on the market.

Nikon's 24mm PC-E F3.5 does about 1:2.3, since those 1:3 lenses are labelled macro, so should this one.

Tamron recently released a 24mm F2.8 1:2 lens.

I will not recommend those laborious relay setups since there's stuff on the market that's easier to use and produces better images.

Here's close-ups.

24mm pc-e


Laowa 12mm D-Dreamer


The 12mm is optimised for close-ups too, that's according to the lens designer himself.
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edouardm



Joined: 19 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much and by the way nice pics, love the Teddy ! I'm working with quite specific stuff as I shoot with medium format digital back 53.9 x 40.4 mm sensor. Can use both bayonnet mount on my Mamiya body or a large format digital chamber. In fact I would like to avoid using ASPC or FF lenses.
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edouardm



Joined: 19 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

... I would like magnifications from +- 1:3 to 2:1.
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quiver03



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm learning to take macro shots now. This is real art! I hope to become a professional in this matter!
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Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
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Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see, that's quite specific.

Laowa does offer an FX-medium format lens converter. This adaptor makes the image circle of FX lenses larger to cover medium format. Combing that with their 15mm wide angle macro lens that does 1:1 mag should yield nice close-up to macro results. This gives you a 21mm lens that does 1:1.

I'm personally not sure if that would work for you.

Laowa also offers a 24mm F11 relay lens that goes to 2:1, using the format converter will give you a 33.6mm. However the lens does have a small aperture.

What is that you're looking to photograph if I may ask?
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edouardm



Joined: 19 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course. I'd love to shoot cosmetics in the studio adding the extra punch of fish eye / wide angle. I was wondering about 28mm Componon. But I think it really is dedicated to the tiny subjects. And I'd rather have best aperture around 11 to 16.
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chris_ma



Joined: 22 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so in summary a lens that covers a 67mm diagonal circle, at Mag 0.3x to 2x, with focal length around 28mm and shooting aperture around F11-16?

I think it will be tricky to find something that wide that still covers the full sensor at 0.3x. first thing that come to mind is wide angle medium format lenses but they might not hold up great at high magnification.

the componon likely will vignette at 0.3x, and even up to higher mag (there is probably a way to calculate it, but I'd guess it's even going to be tight on 2x)
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Lou Jost



Joined: 04 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if you could reverse a medium format wide angle lens, either alone or on a longer medium format lens. This would give you the needed magnification. Medium format lenses are dirt cheap nowadays.
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Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the MP of your medium format system?

Either way, I think those 35mm 28mm older medium format lenses on the market should do well reversed. I'm not sure about FOV or FL when coupling lenses, all I know is the magnification. I'll leave that to more educated ones.

Putting a lens in retro also makes the image circle larger, in general I think. The PN95 for example only has a circle of 30mm at 1:2 but it becomes 56 or something at 2:1 when mounted retro.

Laowa's 7.5mm for M4/3 does cover FF easily when mounted in reverse.
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chris_ma



Joined: 22 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Putting a lens in retro also makes the image circle larger, in general I think. The PN95 for example only has a circle of 30mm at 1:2 but it becomes 56 or something at 2:1 when mounted retro.


isn't this more a effect of the increased magnification rather then of reversing the lens?
i.e. the same effect will happen if we don't reverse the lens but just add extension.
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chris_ma



Joined: 22 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Medium format lenses are dirt cheap nowadays.


unfortunately not the good wide angle ones - those are often sought after for shift/tilt operation
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Lou Jost



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris_ma, do you know some standout wide MF lenses?
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chris_ma



Joined: 22 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou Jost wrote:
Chris_ma, do you know some standout wide MF lenses?


Hi Lou,

I can only talk about the classic hasselblad lenses, at the time they were all considered extremely good, by todays standard most of them would be averrage. the 40mm IF version can still compete if stopped down:
datasheet

they need to cover a huge image circle though, and 40mm wouldnt be very wide for a smaller sensor.

lenses designed for smaller medium format are playing in a different league. like:
https://cdn.hasselblad.com/datasheets/xcd-lenses/XCD30-Datasheet-en.pdf

Leica S also has some great lenses in this range.
never used any of those in the macro range, I imagine at F16 they'd do ok in the center, but corners might be another matter and none of them are cheap.
but can't think of anything in the 30mm range optimised for macro that covers a 67mm image circle.
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Macro_Cosmos



Joined: 15 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris_ma wrote:
Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Putting a lens in retro also makes the image circle larger, in general I think. The PN95 for example only has a circle of 30mm at 1:2 but it becomes 56 or something at 2:1 when mounted retro.


isn't this more a effect of the increased magnification rather then of reversing the lens?
i.e. the same effect will happen if we don't reverse the lens but just add extension.

Yeah I think you're right. It's magnification.
The PN95 mounted normally and extended to 2:1 produces horrible images, but does cover FF. At 1:2, it covers FF just fine with good corners, so I'm guessing the 30mm image circle according to Nikon's specs is a very conservative estimate.
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