Schneider APO Digitar 120mm 1x and Tube Lens Test
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Schneider APO Digitar 120mm 1x and Tube Lens Test
Over the last few day I spent way too much time comparing two 5.6/120 APO Digitars and my old faithful 5.6/120 Makro Symmar. The first APO Digitar came from a friend, thanks Daniel, and the other a can't-pass-on-it price on eBay.
But I'm happy to report that the APO-Digitar 120 (AD120) is excellent and it does render slightly differently than the Makro Symmar (M-SR 120)but they are really very similar and both excellent as a macro and as a tube lens. The test images were so close I didn't bother to post the makro Symmar images, only the APO Digitar at 2500 px, to save time.
Full test can be found here on Closeuphotography.com: https://www.closeuphotography.com/schne ... igitar-120
A couple of interesting notes:
The AD120 maximum aperture measures at f/6.15 F&R (the lens is symmetrical). I also used a Raf center section adapter that was slightly faster at f/5.2. The iris is closed maybe 2mm even at the f5.6 setting. The Raf is wide open.
Schneider does not publish any information on whether the AD120 is optimized for sensor cover glass, Rodenstock publishes this info BTW, but I assume it is since the lens was designed for digital backs and they do have an IR sensor stack, also the AD120 has zero CA issues so the design seems to be fine with a digital camera stack.
Gaussian optic data from Schneider indicates the designs of the AD120 and M-SR120 are similar but slightly different.
After all the testing I've done, I can highly recommended the AD120 for macro work on extension at 1x and in a stacked setup. I was able to shoot the Componon 2.8/35 wide open at 3.4x without any issues with CAs. See the 2500px image below.
SHARPNESS TEST AT 1X
Front lens: Schneider APO Digitar 5.6/120 mounted normally and focused on extension
Nominal aperture: f5.6
Effective aperture: f/11.2
Camera: Sony α6300, model # ILCE-6300, also known as: A6300
Sensor size: APS-C. 23.5 × 15.6 mm. 28.21 mm diagonal. 3.92 micron sensor pitch
Flash: Godox TT350s wireless flash x 2 with one Godox X1s 2.4G wireless flash transmitter
Vertical stand: Nikon MM-11 with a Nikon focus block
For this test a stack of images was made with 10 micron steps, and was repeated for each aperture. The sharpest frame was then chosen using Photoshop at 100% actual pixel view. Separate images were selected for center, and corner if needed. Each image was processed in PS CC with identical settings with all noise reduction and lens correction turned off, all settings were zeroed out (true zero) and the same settings were used for all of the images. All of the images shown here are single files.
SHARPNESS TEST AT 3.4X MAGNIFICATION
TEST SET-UP
Front lens: Schneider Componon 35mm f/2.8 lens reverse mounted
Nominal aperture: f2.8
Effective aperture at 3.4x: f/9.5!
Rear lens: Schneider APO Digitar 5.6/120 mounted normally and focused at infinity
Aperture: f5.6
Camera: Sony α6300, model # ILCE-6300, also known as: A6300
Sensor size: APS-C. 23.5 × 15.6 mm. 28.21 mm diagonal. 3.92 micron sensor pitch
Flash: Godox TT350s wireless flash x 2 with one Godox X1s 2.4G wireless flash transmitter
Vertical stand: Nikon MM-11 with a Nikon focus block
For this test a stack of images was made with 2 micron steps, and was repeated for each aperture. The sharpest frame was then chosen using Photoshop at 100% actual pixel view. Separate images were selected for center, and corner if needed. Each image was processed in PS CC with identical settings with all noise reduction and lens correction turned off, all settings were zeroed out (true zero) and the same settings were used for all of the images. All of the images shown here are single files.
Questions and comments welcome.
Robert
Last edited by RobertOToole on Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Good to know that they perform very similar to the MS.
I think there‘s one copy paste typo in the 1x sharpness section.
probably should read „at 1x“ , no?
I think there‘s one copy paste typo in the 1x sharpness section.
Code: Select all
Effective aperture at 4.28x: f/11.2
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Yes, I was glad to see that, otherwise I would have been stuck with the two more lenses that were almost as good.chris_ma wrote:Good to know that they perform very similar to the MS.
I think there‘s one copy paste typo in the 1x sharpness section.probably should read „at 1x“ , no?Code: Select all
Effective aperture at 4.28x: f/11.2
Thanks for catching the typo.
Robert
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Happy to help!
I only had the lens for a couple weeks or so, here's what I found:
- Similar sharpness to the PN105A. The PN105A edges only very slightly
- Seems to be an excellent tube lens. I focused the lens to infinity and it actually did really well. I read a post on possibly photo.net where people are saying the macro versions perform better at infinity than the non-macro ones.
Here's the comparison, PN105A on top. Centre-corners, left to right.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/494 ... 1281_o.jpg
I have some photos at infinity, but my SSD decided to crap itself, all my photos from 2019 are gone... oh well. I only start backing up SSDs after one year of use, this one survived 8 months. Model is Samsung 970EVOPlus 500GB version, not cheap either! -rages-
I only had the lens for a couple weeks or so, here's what I found:
- Similar sharpness to the PN105A. The PN105A edges only very slightly
- Seems to be an excellent tube lens. I focused the lens to infinity and it actually did really well. I read a post on possibly photo.net where people are saying the macro versions perform better at infinity than the non-macro ones.
Here's the comparison, PN105A on top. Centre-corners, left to right.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/494 ... 1281_o.jpg
I have some photos at infinity, but my SSD decided to crap itself, all my photos from 2019 are gone... oh well. I only start backing up SSDs after one year of use, this one survived 8 months. Model is Samsung 970EVOPlus 500GB version, not cheap either! -rages-
Thanks for your work, as usual, Robert!
I own the APO digitar 120 and absolutely love it. Your stacked results continually tempt me to try purchasing a Componon 35 or 28 and giving it a go with the Fuji GFX sensor. I have only found these for sale on Edmund Optics new for just shy of $1000. Were you able to purchase yours used?
I own the APO digitar 120 and absolutely love it. Your stacked results continually tempt me to try purchasing a Componon 35 or 28 and giving it a go with the Fuji GFX sensor. I have only found these for sale on Edmund Optics new for just shy of $1000. Were you able to purchase yours used?
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The 2.8/35 and 2.8/28 Componons? Those came from an eBay seller an Malaysia, every once in awhile they list them as new-old-stock in the box. I picked up two of the 28s and one of the 35s, I believe they sold for a little over $300 ea. maybe $350, still sealed in a plastic bag.Davids wrote:Thanks for your work, as usual, Robert!
I own the APO digitar 120 and absolutely love it. Your stacked results continually tempt me to try purchasing a Componon 35 or 28 and giving it a go with the Fuji GFX sensor. I have only found these for sale on Edmund Optics new for just shy of $1000. Were you able to purchase yours used?
I can look for the sellers name and message you.
Best,
Robert
Schneider 120mm Macro
Robert,
This is a very interesting test.
Would you recommend the Schneider 120mm Macro for digitizing 35mm slides with a Sony A7R2 camera?
I need to copy my best slides that I scanned with a Nikon Coolscan in 2005.
I think I can get better results using the sensor/lens I have now.
Thank you,
Michael
This is a very interesting test.
Would you recommend the Schneider 120mm Macro for digitizing 35mm slides with a Sony A7R2 camera?
I need to copy my best slides that I scanned with a Nikon Coolscan in 2005.
I think I can get better results using the sensor/lens I have now.
Thank you,
Michael
RobertOToole wrote:The 2.8/35 and 2.8/28 Componons? Those came from an eBay seller an Malaysia, every once in awhile they list them as new-old-stock in the box. I picked up two of the 28s and one of the 35s, I believe they sold for a little over $300 ea. maybe $350, still sealed in a plastic bag.Davids wrote:Thanks for your work, as usual, Robert!
I own the APO digitar 120 and absolutely love it. Your stacked results continually tempt me to try purchasing a Componon 35 or 28 and giving it a go with the Fuji GFX sensor. I have only found these for sale on Edmund Optics new for just shy of $1000. Were you able to purchase yours used?
I can look for the sellers name and message you.
Best,
Robert
I am considering getting either an 120 Apo-digitar or a makro-symmar to be used mainly as a tube lens. According to Roberts tests they are really similar in performance, but has anyone experience in using them on a full format sensor?
They don't differ much in price, so maybe I should just get the cheaper of them, which I think would be the macro symmar whis is easier to handle, but I have that nagging "newer is better" feeling that is steering me towards the apo-digitar.
They don't differ much in price, so maybe I should just get the cheaper of them, which I think would be the macro symmar whis is easier to handle, but I have that nagging "newer is better" feeling that is steering me towards the apo-digitar.
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Dont forget the Makro-Symmar HM has a larger image circle, this info is on my site:Bakwetu wrote:I am considering getting either an 120 Apo-digitar or a makro-symmar to be used mainly as a tube lens. According to Roberts tests they are really similar in performance, but has anyone experience in using them on a full format sensor?
They don't differ much in price, so maybe I should just get the cheaper of them, which I think would be the macro symmar whis is easier to handle, but I have that nagging "newer is better" feeling that is steering me towards the apo-digitar.
https://www.closeuphotography.com/schne ... igitar-120
and
https://www.closeuphotography.com/schne ... mmar-120mm
The APO-D is rated for 63 x 63 or 70mm diagonal at 1:1
The M-S HM is something like 250mm at 1:1
This info was copied from my site:
APO Digitar 5.6/120: 70mm at 1x
Makro Symmar 5.6/120: 90mm at 1x
Makro Symmar M-SR 5.9/120 lens: 90mm at 1x
Makro Symmar HM 5,6/120: 250mm at 1x
APO Digitar ASPH 5.6/120: 150mm at infinity
This 8 element macro lens optimized to cover medium format digital sensors with a 70mm image circle at 1X magnification. APO-Digitars are now discontinued, but they were sold and distributed by high-end camera manufacturers like Alpa, Cambo, Linhof, Rollei, Sinar, Arca-Swiss, Horseman and others. The APO-Digitar 120 M was designed to cover a smaller sensor with more resolving power than large format lenses like the Makro-Symmar, with a 90mm image circle, and APO-Componon HM, with a 250mm image circle.
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The "Regular" Makro Symmar is excellent, one of my favorite lenses everBakwetu wrote:I decided on the regular Macro symmar, it had the best price and since I am going to use it as tube lens. Let's hope for a safe shipment and no fungal growth.
80 or 120mm?
The 120 is better.
I just finished running a quick test of a couple of 80mm tube lenses (with the SK 2.8/35), in this case the 5.6/80mm APO-Digitar, Colortrac was very poor!
In order of image quality, best to worse.
SK 5.6/80 Makro-Symmar: Excellent.
SK M-Componon 4/80: ok
SK Componon 5.6/80 old model: corners a little soft
SK Componon-S 4/80: Poor corners, not recommended
SK APO-Digitar Colortrac 5.6/80: Poor corners and CAs! Worst lens of all the SK 80s. Avoid this lens
I don't own any Rodenstock 80mm lenses now unfortunately so only SK this time.
Best,
Robert