Thinking of going Nikon

[ray_parkhurst]

I've been shooting with my Canon HRT2i for quite some time, and eventually it's going to wear out and need replacing. I've tried to find a replacement while at same time improving resolution, and purchased a Pentax K3-II, a Sony A7Rm3, a Canon 5DSR, and Sony A7Rm4. None of these gave me the image quality I was seeking for various reasons as I have reported here on the forum over the years. I have recently seen some photos taken with a Nikon D850 and some with the Z7, and they look very good to me at pixel level, better than I generally see from the other cameras I tried. I'm thinking maybe the Nikon demosaicing, or sensors, or something may be superior and worth considering.

My current hardware setup requires USB-connected Live View tethering, and the ability to hardwire trigger from a mjkzz/WeMacro/StackShot interface. I also want EFSC (EFCS for Nikon) to enable continuous lighting, and no AA filter. Full electronic shutter would be nice, as would be mirrorless. FF would be preferred, but APS-C would be acceptable if other parameters were satisfied. As high a MP count as possible. I think the candidates are:

D810
D850
D500
D7500
Z7

I have a few questions for those who've used the above for macro:

- Are there other models which have both EFCS and no AA filter?
- Are there any odd things about these cameras that would affect functionality? For instance, I think some of the DSLRs (all?) need to be in MUP mode to activate EFCS. How is that accomplished during a stack? Is the first image lost?
- What is the best tethering program for Nikon? I would generally go toward CMN but if something else is better (and not too expensive) I'd consider it

Sorry if this info has been discussed before.

[Boron]

Z6 does have AA filter

[Macrero]

I sold my D810 a couple of weaks ago. I absolutely loved the IQ, DR, resolution, etc. But the awful EFCS mode Nikon uses in this model is unforgivable

I was considering buying a D850, which has fully e-shutter in Live View, but IQ wise the only impovement over the D810 would be some extra MPs, that I don't need.

I got a Sony a7R II. Returned it a few days ago, the Nikon was better.

Tried a Canon M6 Mk II, liked the camera, not so much the IQ, AA blur filter and too much pixels for high-mag work.

I am considering buying a Lumix S1, but when the price drops.

I have already healed of the gear-fever episode I suffered I am currently using an old Fuji X-T1 and I am just happy taking photos

If I needed a high-res camera I would buy a Pana S1-R.

Best,

- Macrero

[ray_parkhurst]

OK, Z6 is off the list.

The S1R seems to have some proponents (you Macrero, Lou, maybe others). Does have all the specs I've outlined? Specifically, what software is needed for Live View tethering? The in-camera pixel shifting is attractive, and I am assured by Lou that the results are natural and without the weird artifacts seen on the Sony models, so if it can do the other things then I may consider it.

[Macrero]

I don't need all that, so I haven't looked into it. Someone who owns the camera (Lou) would be more helpful.

From what I've seen, yes, the S1-R with pixel shift looks better/cleaner than the Sony, if you need 187MP images. The 96MP pixel shifted images of the S1 seems much more "reasonable" to me, and easier to work with.

[chris_ma]

the S1r pixel shift is great, specially on objects that are prone to moire or have extremely fine detail at pixel level. (funny bit is that many objects don't have features small enough to really make the difference obvious).

pixel shift captures take about 10seconds to assemble in camera after the capture, then another 10sec to transfer to the computer through USB3. during that time, the camera is blocked.

tethering only works with Panasonics Lumix tether software as far as I know. It's pretty decent, has live view with peaking and up to 6x magnification. that works OK for single captures, with pixel shift I usually need to check the full res file afterwards (with stacking this won't be an issue of course).

I trigger through the tether program and capture to a Lightroom watch folder which works flawless for me.

haven't tried external cable triggering yet since Panasonic wants 80EUR for a crappy piece of plastic and 3 resistors, but ordered a cable (2.5mm TRRS jack) to solder my own. Hopefully can give a clear feedback on that soon.

hope that helps a bit
chris

[Lou Jost]

I would never consider a mirrored camera for macro work; "mirrorless" would be on the top of my list of desired attributes.

I love the image quality of the S1R but it isn't perfect. Manual focusing accuracy is very difficult to judge in the viewfinder. And the hi-res mode takes a lot of time, too much to make a deep stack of delicate biological specimens. The next generation, with a faster processor, may get that right.

The Panasonic Lumix tethering application has serious limitations/bugs. For example I cannot get it to control the lens focus, for a supposedly compatible Sigma 70mm macro lens in Canon mount with supposedly compatible MC21 Sigma Canon to-L mount adapter. But for your purposes it might be fine. It does provide a large nice image, better than the viewfinder. I have not used it for stacks; I write to XQD cards during stacks, thinking it might be faster. Maybe I am wrong about that.

The camera is built like a tank. It fell off my desk onto a concrete floor without suffering any damage.

[Lou Jost]

One thing in favor of Nikon (and probably Canon too): they respect their RAW files. There is no automatic hidden compression or noise reduction. Sony was the worst violator of RAW fille integrity, but apparently Panasonic also does some hidden, unstoppable RAW compression.

[ray_parkhurst]

I also am biased toward mirrorless for my next purchase, but the MUP/electronic shutter or EFCS at least eliminates the mirror cycling which occurs on my T2i and earlier Nikons.

I see that Lumix Tether doesn't support Win7, so I'll need to use my laptop or do an upgrade on my main PC.

Does the S1R have a single-signal trigger? Is that the case for normal and pixel shift modes?

I'm sure I will have more questions.

[RobertOToole]

One thing in favor of Nikon (and probably Canon too): they respect their RAW files. There is no automatic hidden compression or noise reduction. Sony was the worst violator of RAW fille integrity, but apparently Panasonic also does some hidden, unstoppable RAW compression.

True about Nikon not applying compression or noise reduction to NEF Raw files Lou but the sad truth is Nikon has been doing something called "WB preconditioning" which changes the channel color output before its saved in the Raw file, something Canon doesn't do. So Nikon Raws aren't 100% Raw FYI.

Also Nikon sNEFs or sRAW files are not Raw! Some people are not aware of this.

ASAIK, Leica, Olympus and Sony have opt codes attached to the Raw file for things like distortion, CA correction etc that work behind the scenes with the raw convertor but this is an easy work around (avoid using Adobe raw conversion apps will solve the issue).

Also FWIW Ray, my next macro camera will be mirrorless, either Sony or Olympus (for different reasons), but it will not be a Nikon that I know for sure (after shooting with that brand since 2007).

My next wildlife camera, when it comes time to retire my D850 and D500, will be a Sony A9.

Best,

Robert

[RobertOToole]

One thing in favor of Nikon (and probably Canon too): they respect their RAW files. There is no automatic hidden compression or noise reduction. Sony was the worst violator of RAW fille integrity, but apparently Panasonic also does some hidden, unstoppable RAW compression.

Just thought of one more thing Lou. Something that impresses me is that Sony seems to be very responsive to requests from the public when it comes to features and to fixing issues. Like the RAW file compression issue, where Nikon and Canon seem to take years to do any little change if they even bother at all. Just my experience being in NPS and CPS for something like 25+ years (combined). (nikon professional service and Canon professional service)

Best,

Robert

[chris_ma]

Sony was the worst violator of RAW fille integrity, but apparently Panasonic also does some hidden, unstoppable RAW compression.

If I haven't messed up, the math suggests a pixel shift RAW file should be 987 MB (47MP sensor, 4x the size, 14bit RGB per pixel)
my pixel shift files are usually around 350MB, so about 1:3 compressed (actually I'm kind glad they do that since otherwise write times and storage needs would go through the roof).

[chris_ma]

Does the S1R have a single-signal trigger? Is that the case for normal and pixel shift modes?

not sure what you mean with single signal trigger?
the pixel shift is triggered by a single shutter release.

It's possible to trigger it through the external remote, seems to be wired up something like this:
https://www.robotroom.com/Macro-Photography-2.html

as mentioned I haven't tested it yet, but it's on the to do list as soon as the TRRS cable arrives.

[dhmiller]

I shoot stacks with a D850 MUP - I just set the stackshot to take two shots with a 5 second interval - just like I would do when shooting manually. I find the color rendition to be superb on all the recent Nikon pro bodies - I also have a D5 and a D500 and plan to do some tests with the latter shortly. Other than buying a mirrorless, which makes a lot of sense, I can't think of anything against the D850 - and useful for just about everything else you might want to shoot.

I've been shooting with my Canon HRT2i for quite some time, and eventually it's going to wear out and need replacing. I've tried to find a replacement while at same time improving resolution, and purchased a Pentax K3-II, a Sony A7Rm3, a Canon 5DSR, and Sony A7Rm4. None of these gave me the image quality I was seeking for various reasons as I have reported here on the forum over the years. I have recently seen some photos taken with a Nikon D850 and some with the Z7, and they look very good to me at pixel level, better than I generally see from the other cameras I tried. I'm thinking maybe the Nikon demosaicing, or sensors, or something may be superior and worth considering.

My current hardware setup requires USB-connected Live View tethering, and the ability to hardwire trigger from a mjkzz/WeMacro/StackShot interface. I also want EFSC (EFCS for Nikon) to enable continuous lighting, and no AA filter. Full electronic shutter would be nice, as would be mirrorless. FF would be preferred, but APS-C would be acceptable if other parameters were satisfied. As high a MP count as possible. I think the candidates are:

D810
D850
D500
D7500
Z7

I have a few questions for those who've used the above for macro:

- Are there other models which have both EFCS and no AA filter?
- Are there any odd things about these cameras that would affect functionality? For instance, I think some of the DSLRs (all?) need to be in MUP mode to activate EFCS. How is that accomplished during a stack? Is the first image lost?
- What is the best tethering program for Nikon? I would generally go toward CMN but if something else is better (and not too expensive) I'd consider it

Sorry if this info has been discussed before.

[Lou Jost]

Chris_ma, I should have been more precise about my complaint regarding compressed RAW files. Lossless compression is fine; like you, I'd appreciate that. But Panasonic and Sony do lossy compression on the RAWS! That's a sin in my book.