EOS M3+Nikon 10X CFI Plan=bad image quality(Solved)

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MacroLab3D
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Location: Ukraine

EOS M3+Nikon 10X CFI Plan=bad image quality(Solved)

Post by MacroLab3D »

Hi. Thank you all for your great help! Love this forum.

I bought that Nikon 10X and it's terrible. I believe i am doing something wrong, please help me to find the cause.

After consulting with you all i collected all of this:
-Canon EOS M3
-Canon EF-M Lens Adapter Kit for Canon EF / EF-S Lenses
-Nikon CFI M25 microscope objective to M52 52mm adapter
-RISE(UK) 72mm-52mm 72-52mm 72 to 52 Step down Ring Filter Adapter
-Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
-Nikon 10x Plan Achromat Infinity Objective Part # MRL00102 10x/0.25
Looks like this(all images without sharpening, clean RAW to JPG conversion, unstacked):
Image

And right from the start quality was like this, 100% crop(EOS M3, 10X, tube lens 200mm, F2.8, 1/25, ISO100):
Image

Then i switched to my old 5DII tube lens 200mm, F2.8, 1/20, ISO100 and got this(100%crop):
Image

And then i did comparison with MP-E65 on 5D:
Image

As you can see quality bad overall, but it is much worth on M3. All blurry and with chromatic aberrations. 4X MP-E65 shot looks like same level of details, right? What might be a problem here?

Thank you!
Last edited by MacroLab3D on Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

MacroLab3D
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Location: Ukraine

Post by MacroLab3D »

And few stacked examples(Zerene, DMAP):
Image
Zerene, DMAP 185 shots:
Image
Zerene, DMAP, 46 shots:
Image

JH
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Post by JH »

Hi
Hopefully your 10x lens is OK and some other things are disturbing the picture. As you know there could be several various factors that affects the picture.
1) Vibrations – flash
2) Light “quality” – this is a matter of taste but for testing use - diffused light.
3) Camera and lens settings – manual setting, tube lens at infinity, tube lens open aperture.
4) Lenses – take a close look at the front lens of the 10x to examine it so there is no fingerprint ore grease or…
The 10x should reveal more detail than the MPE-65.
I do not have exact this 10x lens – so I cannot judge the amount of chromatic aberration. Usually almost all the CA in areas that are in focus disappear while stacking with PMax. Different subjects and/or lighting might affect how much the CA (appears to?) affect the image. The only cure for CA in out of focus areas are APO lenses and/or retouching.
I hope this will help and that you will get the picture quality that you want.

Regards Jörgen
Jörgen Hellberg, my webbsite www.hellberg.photo

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

What he^ said!
Try ultra-flat (diffused) flash lighting.

Plus, make sure the adapters are not reflective. The objective should have a black screw-in disc at its rear (sometimes they're missing) but flocking may help.
Inside the front of the objective front is chromium-shiny too, which seems odd!
Chris R

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

The first 10X / M3 image (http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/u ... crop_1.jpg) appears to be significantly motion-blurred, especially on the vertical axis.

On the stacked examples, I question whether color balance is right. They seem way too blue, even considering the effects of CA.

In your last stacked example, http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/u ... 4_45_1.jpg, the fine mottling appears to be a DMap artifact caused by having the contrast selection slider set way too far left. You should slide it to the right until all that mottling gets covered by the "black in preview" mask. See http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 728#211728 for some more discussion of that. Basic documentation about DMap in general is provided in the "How To Use DMap" tutorial, linked at http://www.zerenesystems.com/cms/stacke ... rialsindex, but the other discussion is particularly relevant to the mottling that you're getting.

I hope this helps!

--Rik

MacroLab3D
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Location: Ukraine

Post by MacroLab3D »

Jörgen, Chris, and Rick! Once again you guys saved me.

First what i did is this:
Image
Using double sided scotch i attached round patch of black cloth as shown. I didn't noticed any difference (but i hope it's do it's job), so i continued my search for the cause. I was sure my system is stable but after your suggestions i reconsider it and used flash to ensure (usually i use LED lights, which gives me 1/4 -1/20 shutter speeds). Also i pointed my setup in front of the wall and started to shoot my wallpapers. The moment i did first flash shot i realized my system is shaking, even if it is not obvious on live view, even under zoom. Wow. I was amazed. This means all my building is shaking. Especially when elevator is running!

After that i switched back to my specimen (Longhorn Beetle) and did few tests with diffused flash and finally got what Johan calls "wickedly sharp": http://extreme-macro.co.uk/nikon-10x-ob ... z4c5n0ZHnx
Image
After this i shot new stack (using LEDs+new, diffusion. Still working on it) and obviously got massive improvement. IWaited till 3AM till all of it's "population" gone to bed and finally my building is not shaking anymore!
PMAX, sharpened in photoshop, nothing more:
Image
And finally Cross View:
Image

I am very happy now. Because i was worried about my tube lens, about my first microscope objective and other staff and now it's perfect.

Thank you so much http://www.photomacrography.net!
Love you!

P.S. I am sure you already know what does it means by Johan (about Nikon 10X CFI): "Shown with its outer brown casing, which I actually usually just remove to give a little more room for light to make its way down to the specimen."
How exactly Johan removes it? Never saw it anywhere and can't find anything more about it.

MacroLens
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Post by MacroLens »

Your setup looks very good and nice images now that you know the root cause!

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

Well done!
It's amazing how much things wobble :evil:
The flocking may not have done anything, I've had it do a lot and just a little.

Sometimes the outer shell of that objective is very tight. Removing it doesn't gain a lot. I would suggest gripping the outer part at the front end, because the screw thread it ast th rear and you don't want to compress it.
Warming the barrel a little (hair dryer, your risk(!)) may help.
But mostly I find it's a matter of finding something like rubber strip/tubes to grip the thing, which makes the differences! There's no sealant in there.

If you sacrifice a 25mm lens container cap, you can saw-cut radially into the threaded base, then squeeze that on to the threads, to grip without damaging.

I have also used a dozen rubber/elastic bands wrapped round..
Chris R

Pau
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Post by Pau »

I have the same objective and the external shell screws out easily, but this doesn't add any working distance (the chromed tip remains), maybe just a bit more angle and a worse looking objective :lol: I don't think it could be worth at risk of damaging it nor even a case.

- the only terrible with this objective is the amount of longitudinal CA but as it can bee seen in your last images it mostly disappears when stacking just because it affects to out of focus areas.
Pau

MacroLab3D
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Location: Ukraine

Post by MacroLab3D »

MacroLens wrote:looks very good and nice
Thanks. I am happy with the result too. Such a relief. By the way, your nickname is scary similar))
ChrisR wrote:rubber/elastic bands wrapped round..
Similar to this?
Image
This is a bottom part of white air balloon. I am listening to your suggestion an decided i will not risk damaging my only microscope objective (for now), and not going to disassemble it, but i will live that foreskin on, to prevent color bleeding to specimen from that brown casing. Instead it will help to diffuse light and also some kind of lens hood, which i hope ads some benefits too :))
Here is the result using diffused flash(Zerene, DMAP):
Image

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