marking meanings (Leitz PL FLUOTAR 40/0.70 *160/0.17)

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Ichthyophthirius
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Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Choronzon wrote:So here is the lineup of Leitz objectives I own with * that I found will work.

In addition, I was able to get the Zeiss 25X plan apo to work, as well as the Zeiss 40X Plan Neofluar.

None of the Leitz 170 TL seem to work, and of the Leitz 160, if it soesn't have the *, it will not work at all.
Hi,

Thank you very much for the information and for the testing! Great work.

So lenses without an *, like NPL Fluotar 25/0.55, PL APO 25/0.65 or NPL Fluotar 40/0.70 (I don't know what you tested?), don't give DIC on your system?

Kind regards,

Ichty

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

Yes, Ichty, that is correct. Although I have seen an NPL 6.3x phase with an* for sale in Germany, so go figure. As a general rule, no 170 tl, or phase, or NPL will work, but there are exceptions. I haven't seen a Leitz without the * work, but some Zeiss appear to. I think it has to do with the location of the pupil to the dic prism, and also the phase ring disturbing the shear.
I am not young enough to know everything.

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

Image Image Image

Here are 3 anomalies of Leitz objectives that can be used with the Leitz Aristoplan DIC with success because of the * designation. I believe they redesigned the pupil distance to the prism instead of just hand picking objectives for compatability with DIC.
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Ichthyophthirius
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Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Choronzon wrote:Here are 3 anomalies of Leitz objectives that can be used with the Leitz Aristoplan DIC with success because of the * designation.
This seems to fit your tests and theory very well. If there is a *, the DIC works.

Sorry to ask again, but did you test NPL Fluotar 25/0.55, PL APO 25/0.65 or NPL Fluotar 40/0.70 (without *) specifically?

On the question of the NPL Fluotars, maybe a I can contribute. There are:

NPL Fluotar 40/0.70 [no part number engraved; number in catalogue is "519 502"]
NPL Fluotar *40/0.70 "519 737"
PL Fluotar *40/0.70 "519 737" and
PL Fluotar *40/0.70 "518 039"

I suspect that the PL Fluotar *40/0.70 "519 737" is just a re-labelled NPL Fluotar *40/0.70 "519 737" since front lens and working distance are the same between the two, but different from "519 502" and "518 039". I've seen all four.

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

"Sorry to ask again, but did you test NPL Fluotar 25/0.55, PL APO 25/0.65 or NPL Fluotar 40/0.70 (without *) specifically? "

Yes, they don't work, even a little bit.
I was under the impression that the PL Fluotars were all redesigned for the Aristoplan specifically to cover the ultrawide field available for it. The NPL's are not exactly flat on mine. Close, but not exactly flat like the PL Fluotars.
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Pau
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Post by Pau »

NPL are flat field up to 20mm while PL are up to 25 or 28mm according to Leitz literature, so your observations fit well.

With some NPL Fluotars I get decent DIC but not at Khöler position with my hybrid Zeiss/Olympus/Leitz DIC, so the back focal plane hypothesis fits well:
- NPL Fluotar 16/0.40
- NPL Fluotar 25/0.55
- NPL Fluotar 40/0.70
- NPL Fluotar 50/1.00 oel
All of them for 160/0.17. The best DIC is with the last one. All are flat field with 18mm FN Periplan eyepieces
Pau

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

Image

Found another one, a plan apo 16x

Image

I'm now wondering if the whole pl apo series had a later, last incarnation with the * before Leitz became Leica and infinity. I now have seen the 100 pl apo with iris*, the 63x pl apo*, and now this 16x pl apo* on eBay. The shell looks damaged as if it was dropped, so I'll probably pass
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Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

I finally found an objective that works with the Aristophot DIC that hasn't been marked with an asterisk. I doesn't just work, it works in a spectacularly even and contrasty way. It seems to work with any prism combination, although at 100x condenser prism, it's slightly less even than the others.
It's the NPL Fluotar 63/0.90 Correction collar objective. It has a working distance of 0.11, but this will vary slightly with the cover glass setting. All in all, a very excellent semi apo dry lens.Image
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Cactusdave
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Post by Cactusdave »

I happen to have that same Leitz NPL Fluotar 63/0.90 with correction collar, though I don't have the Aristophot DIC to test it with. It's a big heavy chunk of glass and metal, one of the biggest and heaviest conventional objectives I can remember seeing. It is quite nice in bright field, but does not play nicely with the quite accommodating Nikon Diaphot DIC system. I have found dry X60 - X63 objectives a bit of a disappointment on the whole. I have examples from Nikon, Lomo, Zeiss and two from Leitz and none are what I would call outstanding. I have always assumed that at this magnification, the higher NA offered by immersion, either water or oil, makes a huge difference to resolution and contrast.
Leitz Ortholux 1, Zeiss standard, Nikon Diaphot inverted, Canon photographic gear

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

Well, yes. It is a bit of a biggie boy objective. There's also a 63X 0.90 plan Apo with correction collar that I'd love to find, but for now this neoplan fluotar will have to do. This is a bit of a specialty optic in that it has a high NA for a dry lens, and a higher magnification than the 40X that is the norm for a dry lens. The correction collar is a must have with this configuration, and it must be a precision mechanism, not an afterthought. A properly Kohlered light source is essential for an objective like this. Focusing lamphouse condenser, centerable filament. No LED's allowed. Sorry, not Kohler. I've seen many 60- 63X objectives with correction collars, and this one is the gold standard. It's use is mainly with wet mounts in cell biology, when you need to switch from a lower power finder lens to a high power observing lens. Any immersion technique will prohibit this. Also immersion lenses with higher numerical apertures are only as high in NA as their immersion condensers. So use on an inverted microscope is suspect.
Used with the standard Leitz 0.90 NA DIC condenser, it performs quite well enough for thin wet mounts in cellular material and bacteriology. Images of epithelial cells are quite spectacular for a dry lens. It's understood that an immersion lens will out perform it, but not by so much that it's utility as a high power dry lens will make it less desirable.
As to the DIC performance on a non-Leitz inverted microscope, I have no experience.
I will tell you that the images of the ariry discs from a properly adjusted correction collar form this specimen are perfectly concentric. Something not always seen with correction collars on older 160 tube length objectives.
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Pau
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Post by Pau »

No LED's allowed. Sorry, not Kohler
You can set up a LED to Khölher just placing it at the very same position of the lamp filament. The main issue AFAIK is that most high powered LEDs are in fact matrix of several LEDs even if covered by a common phosphor, so they don't substitute well a filament, at least if you want to profit well their power.

I'm waiting to receive a Zeiss Planapo 40/0.95...fingers crossed, I haven't used any dry objective above 0.75 before.
Pau

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

You center and focus the image of the led on the aperture diaphragm / back focal plane of the objective exactly how?
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Ichthyophthirius
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Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Choronzon wrote:You center and focus the image of the led on the aperture diaphragm / back focal plane of the objective exactly how?
I use a phase telescope but a Bertrand lens would also do.

Cactusdave
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Post by Cactusdave »

Choronzon, to be honest I probably haven't used this objective in a way which would show it at it's best. I agree setting up the microscope correctly is everything with an objective like this. I must try it on my Ortholux with a carefully set up Leitz 0.90 NA condenser.

Pau, as long as your example isn't delaminated, you will be delighted with the Zeiss 40/0.95 Planapo. Mine is a pleasure to use and plays very nicely with my Zeiss DIC system using the X40 Planachromat slider and the II position on the DIC condenser. As you would expect, and to emphasise Choronzon's point, setting Kohler illumination and careful adjustment of the DIC controls on the condenser and slider is critical to getting good DIC.
Leitz Ortholux 1, Zeiss standard, Nikon Diaphot inverted, Canon photographic gear

Choronzon
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Post by Choronzon »

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/20 ... ction.html

This part of the article is what keeps me from jumping on the led bandwagon as a viable solution to incandessant lamps. I have to work with real lasers every day and certainly don't want to stare into a diode trying to achieve Kohler.
Image
I am not young enough to know everything.

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