Time honored discussion :

NikonUser · Post by **NikonUser** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:57 pm

The 10-pin cable release is OK, but the cable is physically attached to the camera. A better system is on the D70 and D90 (possibly even on the D70s): a ML-L3 wireless remote control. Releases the shutter without any physical contact with the camera.

The BAT · Post by **The BAT** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:32 pm

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the very kind words about my U/W photography. It is something that I loved dearly and will miss, but that is OK coz I'm really excited with the prospects off my new found 'friends' here at photomac and I just love getting out in the bush chasing critters.
I'm not really tecnically bright in the head, as a matter of fact I'm about six sandwiches short of a decent picnic, but I get by. My D70S has an electronic shutter and the flash syncs at 1/500 which was, and still is, the industry's fastest, which I'm lead to believe is good for vibration free travel. Chris S, I think it was, mentioned that MLU is only available for sensor cleaning and as far as I know, this is correct. I plan on getting hold of a second hand D200 from KEH or someone similar. (Any suggestions?)...
As for the continued replies and freeflow chit chat that I've created with this posting, you Guys continue to humble me with your very helpful, and honest opinions. Your knowledge 'blows me away'. . . .
BTW, 'NikonUser', is that you Chris?
Bruce...

Chris S. · Post by **Chris S.** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:12 pm

Bruce,

It seems we Chris's are thick as thieves at this forum. If you were asking if NikonUser and I are the same person--no, we're not. More likely, you were asking if he is some other Chris.

Good luck with your search for a nice second-hand D200. While I don't have any advice about finding a good one, I can assure you that when you do find one, it's a fine camera for macro. At base ISO, I like it better than my D700. I was originally planning to sell my D200 to help ease the pain of the D700 purchase, but decided it was worth more to me than I could sell it for. And now that I've put together a dedicated macro rig, I find it really convenient to keep a camera body dedicated to it, so that's where my D200 now lives.

That 1/500 sync speed on your D70s is admirable--something I envy when I do daylight fill flash in general photography. But I question if it will have much effect in reducing vibration for most macro situations. Under natural light, it obviously wouldn't apply. Under pure flash illumination, the flash duration would be the effective shutter speed, and would almost certainly be quicker than 1/500 second. The only macro situation in which I could see it making much difference is where ambient light is your key, fill, or backlight, and your flashes are acting as the other light sources. But under such a situation, if it were me, I'd be tripod mounted, have the mirror locked up, and use an electronic release.

NikonUser, I beg to differ that an infrared remote is inherently better than a wired remote. The point is probably moot, since those Nikon digital SLRs lacking the 10-pin socket have no other choice than IR. But an electronic release, reasonably used, should not transmit noticable vibration to the camera--at least in my experience. Comparatively, the thump of the mirror slapping up and down does impart significant vibration at certain shutter speeds and magnifications, and is something I don't want to live with for macro or many scenics. I've seen many a landscape and macro shot (some of them my own) lacking a degree of sharpness, for want of mirror lockup.

Best,

--Chris S.

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:21 pm

NU isn't me either!

ChrisS - Bruce has a D70S not a D700S, that one isn't produced yet!

Bruce don't despair for "studio" work, for the lack of a mirror lock. Use dim room lighting, a long exposure, say a second, and flash with rear curtain sync.
That way the vibration of the mirror slap has died way by the time the flash fires. Rooms don't have to be all that dim for it to work.

High magnification and normal flash still shows a bit of movement during the flash.

Chris S. · Post by **Chris S.** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:41 pm

ChrisR wrote: ChrisS - Bruce has a D70S not a D700S, that one isn't produced yet!

Oops! Chris R, thanks for catching my typo. After your note, I edited the typo out of the orginal post.

ChrisR wrote:Bruce don't despair for "studio" work, for the lack of a mirror lock. Use dim room lighting, a long exposure, say a second, and flash with rear curtain sync.
That way the vibration of the mirror slap has died way by the time the flash fires. Rooms don't have to be all that dim for it to work.

Good point, that--more than one way to skin a cat. Still, if Bruce is willing to buy a second-had D200, it may make reducing mirror slap a fair bit easier under wide conditions, including available light.

--Chris S.

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:02 am

MLU usually stands for Mirror Lock Up which is used for cleaning
M-up is Mirror-Up which is used for reducing vibration reduction - first "release" raises the mirror, second takes the photo.

Many of us share Chris S's frustration with Nikon not putting a 10-pin connection and M-up mode on cheap camera.

Andrew

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:06 am

NikonUser wrote:The 10-pin cable release is OK, but the cable is physically attached to the camera. A better system is on the D70 and D90 (possibly even on the D70s): a ML-L3 wireless remote control. Releases the shutter without any physical contact with the camera.

Don't follow that one, please explain ? The 10pin cable is electronic, if a mounting rig vibrates from a soft electrical cable attached to the camera moving there are probably worse problems that need addressing !

Andrew

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:21 am

As to which Nikon's have mirror lock up or other anti vibration features like "anti-shock mode" see:-

http://www.stockholmviews.com/mup/mirror-up.html

DaveW

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:36 am

DaveW wrote:As to which Nikon's have mirror lock up or other anti vibration features like "anti-shock mode" see:-

http://www.stockholmviews.com/mup/mirror-up.html

DaveW

More extensive comparisons at Thom Hogan:

http://bythom.com/olddslr.htm

http://bythom.com/currentdslr.htm

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:21 am

Besides lacking a "shooting" mirror lock-up, one other characteristic of the D70 bodies (and some other "lower" priced Nikon bodies) is that there is no metering capability without a CPU lens. As we all know, totally manual apparatus can be pretty common around here. Frankly it would not bother me all that much for continuous light... since with all the wacky set-ups we use the histogram review is usually the key to proper exposure with DSLR's.

Since I don't have one of these bodies I don't know if this also means there is no TTL flash metering with a completely "manual" attachment. This could be a slightly bigger hassle for some uses.

The D70(s) has a few tricks up it's sleeve in regards to flash sync. If I remember correctly the 1/500 sync speed is the "limit" imposed by a Nikon "dedicated" flash. With a flash attached to a PC outlet (and some shoe mounts that don't fully communicate any "dedicatedness"... technical term

) you can actually sync at the full shutter speed range... up to 1/4000 or 1/8000! This is because the CCD in these cameras use an "electronic shutter". (Keep in mind that there are plenty of flash units that have flash durations much longer than that, but a small unit with power level turned down typically has very short duration). In the grand scheme of things I'm not sure how useful this is... but it's interesting.

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:56 am

Charlie, there's some opportunity for confusion about these various electronic exposure techniques on Nikon cameras.

I'm confused, at least, but then my equipment is Canon.

I gather that Nikon's "electronic shutter" used with their CCD sensors applies to the entire frame at a single instant, but (in contrast) their "electronic first shutter curtain" used with CMOS sensors mimics a mechanical focal-plane shutter and progressively slides across the sensor over a period of 1/250 second or so.

Is that correct? And if so is it also complete, or are there other subtleties to be considered?

--Rik

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:12 pm

I gather that Nikon's "electronic shutter" used with their CCD sensors applies to the entire frame at a single instant, but (in contrast) their "electronic first shutter curtain" used with CMOS sensors mimics a mechanical focal-plane shutter and progressively slides across the sensor over a period of 1/250 second or so.

Yes. The D70(s) does have a conventional mechanical shutter as the sensor needs to be in the "dark" at times. But the entire CCD "frame" can be switched on/off electronically within the "opening" of the mechanical shutter. For details beyond that I'm in the dark

Perhaps Joe W will see this and lend his expertise to give us the tech details.

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:44 pm

So where is the emoticon for "thread disappearing of into oblivion on a tangent" ?

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:15 pm

Tangent?

Bruce asked:

I have been mightily impressed with the results from the Canon 1X-5X 65? lens and was wondering how i could achieve the same impressive results with my Nikon gear?
...
I'm getting really interested in the 'studio' side of things and was wondering as to a really good set-up? I'm firstly concerned as to whether my ageing D70S has the necessary capabilities with resolution and accurate focusing screen, etc to be good enough for the job or whether i would be better off getting hold of one of the newest cameras from Nikon?

Maybe the D90 or D5000?

I was keen on a refurbished D200 but then I have been reading a few reports about focusing issues and screen problems with the D200 and now i'm not so sure?

This all seems related to the question of which cameras play nicely with what kinds of flashes, which strikes me as relevant to both studio and field work.

Besides, let's not forget that a tangent is what you get when you stop going in circles and start making progress in one direction.

--Rik

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:17 pm

If this is the same "Joe W" Charles probably he already has? See:-

http://links.dpnotes.com/nikonelectronicshutter.php

DaveW