Need Advice For A 5X Microscope Lens

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lonepal
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Need Advice For A 5X Microscope Lens

Post by lonepal »

The budget is about 200usd.

I want to buy the best one I can so I need your advice, please support because there are many lenses in this price range so I am confused.

Thank you.
Regards.
Omer

Ichthyophthirius
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Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Hi,

I assume this is for focus stacking and not just for transmitted light microscopy? Any more requirements such as minimum working distance or camera sensor size? Are you prepared to use a tube lens? Would a 4x also be OK?

Regards, Ichty

lonepal
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Turkey

Post by lonepal »

Hi Itchy;

Yes I need this lens for focus stacking.
I have a Canon 100D and a Sony A7RII
Currently using Componon-s 50 enlarger lens.
In the past I used Mitty 5X,10X and 20X lenses.
I use Raynox DCR150 as a tube lens.
But finite lenses are also OK I already have bellows.
4X is also OK.

Thank you.
Regards.
Omer

lonepal
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Location: Turkey

Post by lonepal »

How about Laowa 25mm 2.5X-5X lens?
Do you have any experience with it?
Regards.
Omer

Ichthyophthirius
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Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Hi Omer,

Thanks for the clarifications. I see you're considering camera/repro lenses as well, which is outside my expertise. Hopefully the others will be able to give you advice!

Macro_Cosmos
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Post by Macro_Cosmos »

The Laowa 25mm is a solid lens, check out my review: https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... rm-review/

Performance test:
https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... s-ver-1-0/

Pros:
- Small
- Good image quality, only slightly shadowed by the Mit 5x when at 5x
- Cheap
- Works on every consumer camera, good if you have multiple systems

Cons:
- Distortion could be better
- Some LoCA, disappears with stacking
- Some might find lack of aperture control troubling, I personally don't care

Disclaimer: I received an engineering unit from Laowa, review is personal opinion, not sponsored.

Laowa is looking to release another variable magnification lens that goes farther than 5x.

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

I also really like the Laowa, with excellent image quality especially at lower magnifcations but also good at 4x and 5x. The ability to zoom is really valuable.

Edit-- I meant that I like the Laowa 2.5x -5x .
Last edited by Lou Jost on Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

lonepal
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Turkey

Post by lonepal »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:Hi Omer,

Thanks for the clarifications. I see you're considering camera/repro lenses as well, which is outside my expertise. Hopefully the others will be able to give you advice!
Thank you Itchy!
The Laowa 25mm is a solid lens, check out my review: https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... rm-review/

Performance test:
https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... s-ver-1-0/

Pros:
- Small
- Good image quality, only slightly shadowed by the Mit 5x when at 5x
- Cheap
- Works on every consumer camera, good if you have multiple systems

Cons:
- Distortion could be better
- Some LoCA, disappears with stacking
- Some might find lack of aperture control troubling, I personally don't care

Disclaimer: I received an engineering unit from Laowa, review is personal opinion, not sponsored.
Hi Macro_Cosmos;

I already red your review it was very nice and detailed.

When I was investigating Laowa 25mm I faced a comment it was;

''It is just a normal lens with an variable extension tube, I can take same photos with my reversed Nikon 28 AIS''

Of course there is no proof but after reading this comment I decided to stop purchasing and investigate a bit more.

Can I get same picture quality of Laowa with any enlarger lens or reversed lens?
Regards.
Omer

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

lonepal, the person who wrote that comment does not know what he or she is talking about. The Laowa 2.5x-5x lens is a highly specialized design with very thick elements unlike any normal wide angle lens I know, and is well corrected for macro work. Its best aperture is almost fully open, which is extremely unusual in any lens.

For particular fixed magnifications, there are some enlarger lens + tube lens combos that could be better. See Robert O'Toole's tests here and at www.closeuphotography.com.
But the ease of adjusting the FOV of the Laowa is very convenient and depending on your application, it may outweigs the small difference in image quality.

lonepal
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Location: Turkey

Post by lonepal »

Lou Jost wrote:lonepal, the person who wrote that comment does not know what he or she is talking about. The Laowa 2.5x-5x lens is a highly specialized design with very thick elements unlike any normal wide angle lens I know, and is well corrected for macro work. Its best aperture is almost fully open, which is extremely unusual in any lens.

For particular fixed magnifications, there are some enlarger lens + tube lens combos that could be better. See Robert O'Toole's tests here and at www.closeuphotography.com.
But the ease of adjusting the FOV of the Laowa is very convenient and depending on your application, it may outweigs the small difference in image quality.
Hi Lou;

I already follow Robert's tests closely but I can not buy most of the optics unluckyly ( I live at Turkey). But I can get a Laowa easily.

In the past I used Canon MP-E 65 for a short perioad.
As I understood the IQ of Laowa is a bit behind Mitutoyo 5X and this means the IQ is better than MP-E at same magnifications right?
Regards.
Omer

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hello Omer,
finite: CZJ 6.3 Semiplan
infinite: Nikon BE Plan 4x
BTW, what about the Mitties you used in the past?
BR, ADi

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

"As I understood the IQ of Laowa is a bit behind Mitutoyo 5X and this means the IQ is better than MP-E at same magnifications right?"
I don't have an MP-E but people who have tested them both on the internet say that the Laowa is better. It is also easier to work with because of its narrow front element compared to the MP-E

lonepal
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:26 pm
Location: Turkey

Post by lonepal »

Adalbert wrote:Hello Omer,
finite: CZJ 6.3 Semiplan
infinite: Nikon BE Plan 4x
BTW, what about the Mitties you used in the past?
BR, ADi
Thanks Adalbert;

I already sold them 3 years ago because of another investment.
Regards.
Omer

Macro_Cosmos
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Post by Macro_Cosmos »

lonepal wrote: Hi Macro_Cosmos;

I already red your review it was very nice and detailed.
Glad you liked it! I should finish the image analysis given the quarantines going on.
lonepal wrote: When I was investigating Laowa 25mm I faced a comment it was;

''It is just a normal lens with an variable extension tube, I can take same photos with my reversed Nikon 28 AIS''
Whoever made that comment is delusional and frankly...
No it's not a "normal lens with an extension tube". That would imply there's only elements on the front and the rest of the lens is some kind of empty barrel. Absolutely not the case.

The design is far more specialised and sophisticated. I guess the 2 groups near the rear act as a relay lens, and magnification is achieved through altering the distance between the relay lens and the 2 groups at the front. The relay lens at the rear isn't focused to infinity of course, or else magnification won't change.

There's 10 elements in 5 groups, many which are really thick glass.
lonepal wrote:Can I get same picture quality of Laowa with any enlarger lens or reversed lens?
With any enlarger lens? At specific magnifications, maybe you'll get better images depending on how good the enlarger lens is. However, if the enlarger lens does match the Laowa, it likely won't be consistently good as one magnifies, and it will definitely come with a hefty pricetag. The Apo-El-Nikkor 105mm is really good, it's also $4000+. If you use specialised line scanner lenses at the correct magnification, you can definitely get better images.

If you would like to couple lenses, you can get very good results. Robert, friend and forum user has tested lots of combinations:
https://www.closeuphotography.com/

The combinations can get expensive real quick, since many lenses are rather scarce.

Macro_Cosmos
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Post by Macro_Cosmos »

I chimed in to today's Laowa stream, which features Laowa himself (CEO of the company and optical engineer, Laowa is his ID on the internet, also company's name).

He was kind and explained briefly on how the 25mm 2.5-5x functions.

The lens achieves its magnification by moving lens groups.
I guess it's kind of like changing the magnification of an objective lens by shifting the tube lens? Not sure.

Laowa did clarify on the choice of focal length.

The FL is a consequence of hand holding being considered, not a "reversed wide angle lens with a variable extension tube". If we look at the lens' optical layout which can be found on Laowa's website, that's clearly not the case.

Choosing a shorter FL allow hand movements to be less exaggerated. Think of it as using a spear trying to hit a target, let's say an apple sitting on a fence post.

With a 2.5m long spear, it won't be too difficult.
With a very long spear, let's say 8.5m, or even 20m, it will be difficult to hit the apple, as small amounts of movements on the users' end is amplified. Think of this as a lever mechanism.

Now, the target is an insect, and the photographer is using a lens trying to capture it. The view from the camera is limited, 25mm makes it easier to find the insect in the frame, with less exaggerated movements, as compared to 65mm, 85mm or 200mm.

Laowa gathered information from macro shooters to decide on the FL. I will be doing the same here on a "maybe" lens.

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