Goniometer Alternatives

stu8fish · Post by **stu8fish** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:05 am

The ideal set up seems to be a matched pair of Goniometers to allow rotation around both axis of the subject. To find a reasonably priced pair has proved difficult/impossible.

Has anybody found an economical solution that gets close to the fine control required?

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:49 pm

For the sole purpose of getting the subject stage parallel with the camera sensor, not for just plain tilt control, I went to using clay layer below the subject stage.

Saves me so much time I sold my Goniometer stages.

Best,

Robert

Smokedaddy · Post by **Smokedaddy** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:15 pm

RobertOToole wrote:For the sole purpose of getting the subject stage parallel with the camera sensor, not for just plain tilt control, I went to using clay layer below the subject stage.

Saves me so much time I sold my Goniometer stages.

Best,

Robert

And how do you confirm it's parallel with the camera sensor? I've had a heck of a time doing that with a chip or wafer.

-JW:

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:28 pm

Smokedaddy wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:For the sole purpose of getting the subject stage parallel with the camera sensor, not for just plain tilt control, I went to using clay layer below the subject stage.

Saves me so much time I sold my Goniometer stages.

Best,

Robert
And how do you confirm it's parallel with the camera sensor? I've had a heck of a time doing that with a chip or wafer.

-JW:

Hi JW,

Lower the camera and lens onto the stage and make contact to align it. For best results a rigid Camera+lens setup works best, like my SM2 setup, but I have gotten good results even using a telephoto lens as a tube lens.

It's a dead simple method I learned from a friend and it saves me tons of time.

Best,

Robert

Smokedaddy · Post by **Smokedaddy** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:31 pm

... how about on a horizontal setup?

-JW:

ray_parkhurst · Post by **ray_parkhurst** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:36 pm

I like to use tip-tilt stages for leveling. Goniometers are a bit of overkill for that purpose. I use a goniometer when I'm doing pseudo-axial lighting, along with a tilt adapter on the camera. It's needed in that app since the tilts can be several degrees, and an 8-degree goniometer matches nicely with an 8-degree tilt adapter. But for stage leveling, tip-tilts seem more suitable as they only tend to tilt a few degrees max.

I prefer the mirror method for calibrating the stage to level. Put a mirror flat on your subject stage, stop-down your lens, and adjust the tip-tilt or whatever until the reflection of the camera lens is centered on the sensor.

kaleun96 · Post by **kaleun96** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:19 am

Smokedaddy wrote:... how about on a horizontal setup?

-JW:

I've used Robert's advice on a horizontal setup as well and it works good enough.

Though I am tempted to switch to a vertical rig for making this kind of thing easier.

dickb · Post by **dickb** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:02 am

I have used a variation of Robert's technique, with a reversed tripod head as the base onto which I lower the lens. This only works well when the head doesn't have any creep when locking it and the setup is stable enough. I now use a Novoflex MagicBalance I had lying around.

FOTOJO · Post by **FOTOJO** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Hello, I'm a new member so hope I'm not barging in. For a vertical set up I am using a first surface mirror on the lens, a laser collimator on the surface bounced back to the aperture in the collimator. Adjustments are made with a rotation stage and a goniometers, focusing is a linear stage. Takes a few tries but I can usually get a wafer, center/four corners sharp.The goniometer and rotation stage were sold as a unit for around $150.00 from one of the Asian sellers on eBay

Macro_Cosmos · Post by **Macro_Cosmos** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:31 pm

They aren't that expensive, you just have to be patient and actively seek deals.

Alternatives:
1. Ballhead
2. Make one. It's actually not hard at all. Get two pieces of aluminium, one smooth bore in the middle for screw and nut, and two m3x0.5 ones on each side of the bottom plate. Buy 2 high precision adjusters from thorlabs, $8 each or so, use the two adjusters for angles.
3. Geared head, more expensive and defeats the purpose of your post but you do get a good tripod head too

With proper goniometers, you can convert them to a geared head with ease. I have 3 sets of thorlabs ones, paid $60 for two of the sets. Just gotta wait. I've since traded 2 of them for some other stuff with a friend.

Leofoto made an area Swiss L60 clone, not expensive. I'll get one during China's capitalism festival of 11-11 and see how it goes. Like the idea of arca-swiss clamp and rotation built in.

elf · Post by **elf** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:50 am

Macro_Cosmos wrote: Leofoto made an area Swiss L60 clone, not expensive. I'll get one during China's capitalism festival of 11-11 and see how it goes. Like the idea of arca-swiss clamp and rotation built in.

Do you have a link for this?

Macro_Cosmos · Post by **Macro_Cosmos** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:07 am

elf wrote:
Macro_Cosmos wrote: Leofoto made an area Swiss L60 clone, not expensive. I'll get one during China's capitalism festival of 11-11 and see how it goes. Like the idea of arca-swiss clamp and rotation built in.
Do you have a link for this?

I do but it's still gonna be very very hard for those outside of China without a working ID to obtain. I'll send you the link to your inbox when I get home. Also Taobao requires an account to use, which requires a Chinese ID. The link very likely won't work, I can send you a snapshot of the page too.

Macro_Cosmos · Post by **Macro_Cosmos** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:27 am

elf wrote:
Macro_Cosmos wrote: Leofoto made an area Swiss L60 clone, not expensive. I'll get one during China's capitalism festival of 11-11 and see how it goes. Like the idea of arca-swiss clamp and rotation built in.
Do you have a link for this?

Leofoto's, 10 degrees adjustment: https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a ... 4801657581
Marsace, 3.5 degrees but cheaper, seems to have lower centre of gravity too: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1 ... 1476442006

FULL DISCLOSURE
I personally know and talk to the founder of Leofoto. I don't get a cent and I pay for all my stuff out of my own wallet. I just think they are one of the few Chinese companies that make good products and offer good customer support, Marsace is one of them too but I don't know anyone from that company.