4X Surprise Lens vs Nikon 4x Plan APO Can you tell the diff?

dickb · Post by **dickb** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:11 pm

RobertOToole wrote:
dickb wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:In my experience the APO-Xenoplan, Xenoplan and Xenoplan CCTV Lens are the same lenses housed in different mounts.
I agree that Xenoplan Compact Series and Xenoplan CCTV lenses appear to be the same lenses housed in different barrels - with the proviso that some CCTV versions have a very annoying center (spot) filter as a part of their optical scheme.
I did read that someplace Dick but if I remember correctly that was the faster lenses, the 0.95 versions maybe? You know more and have more experience than me about XNPs that anyone I know.

Many Schneider 0.95 lenses have a center or spot filter. But also some of the CCTV Xenoplans:

Version
CM 120: manual iris
CP 100: motorized iris (upon request)
CP 100 VF: motorized iris with spot filter
CP 100 VS: motorized iris with spot filter
and video signal control

So avoid the CP100 VF and VS versions, I had a 23/1.4 where the spot filter was impossible to remove, as far as I could tell, and also a 70/2.2 where upon disassembly the spot filter was on a separate film that could be removed.

RobertOToole · Post by **RobertOToole** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:19 pm

dickb wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:
dickb wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:In my experience the APO-Xenoplan, Xenoplan and Xenoplan CCTV Lens are the same lenses housed in different mounts.
I agree that Xenoplan Compact Series and Xenoplan CCTV lenses appear to be the same lenses housed in different barrels - with the proviso that some CCTV versions have a very annoying center (spot) filter as a part of their optical scheme.
I did read that someplace Dick but if I remember correctly that was the faster lenses, the 0.95 versions maybe? You know more and have more experience than me about XNPs that anyone I know.
Many Schneider 0.95 lenses have a center or spot filter. But also some of the CCTV Xenoplans:

Version
CM 120: manual iris
CP 100: motorized iris (upon request)
CP 100 VF: motorized iris with spot filter
CP 100 VS: motorized iris with spot filter
and video signal control

So avoid the CP100 VF and VS versions, I had a 23/1.4 where the spot filter was impossible to remove, as far as I could tell, and also a 70/2.2 where upon disassembly the spot filter was on a separate film that could be removed.

Thanks for that.

It seems like the CCTV Xenoplans, especially the motorized versions are more popular in EU, than here in the US. Any idea why?

dmillard · Post by **dmillard** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:16 am

dickb wrote: I'm not Robert, but I do have Xenoplans in both CCTV and Compact series variants and also a few of these Fujinons. The Fujinons are massive compared to the Schneiders, the CCTV Xenoplans are reasonably large but relatively lightweight , the compact series are small but very dense.

Thanks for the information.

dmillard · Post by **dmillard** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:18 am

RobertOToole wrote:
dmillard wrote:Are the Xenoplans you have that massive?

Came across these while searching for the spot filter info.

Thanks again for the PDF link.

Thank you Robert.

dickb · Post by **dickb** » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:08 am

I didn't resist temptation so I just received the XNP 23/1.4 (4.0). Taking it apart, the front and rear groups are easy to remove. This leaves you with an apparently solid outer barrel and the fixed F/4.0 stop in the middle. This is fixed in a puzzling way, as the disc is apparently larger in diameter than the threads on either side (about 18mmx0.5). Just how this is constructed I am not sure. Either I am overlooking a way in which the apparently solid barrel is constructed from several pieces or everything was made from a single piece of aluminium.

Anyway, the only way I see for removing the stop at the moment is drilling it out, either to the desired size directly or completely and replacing it with another one of the desired size.

So perhaps I should go and test my regular 23/1.4 to see what the ideal size is and then drill the f/4.0 stop out. It may take a while before I get around to doing that though..

BTW, there is a grub screw in the M23x0.5 focussing thread you need to remove when taking the rear group out. This also allows you to alter the spacing of the group slightly. Yet another variable to consider when testing these lenses..

kaleun96 · Post by **kaleun96** » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:03 am

dickb wrote: Anyway, the only way I see for removing the stop at the moment is drilling it out, either to the desired size directly or completely and replacing it with another one of the desired size.

So perhaps I should go and test my regular 23/1.4 to see what the ideal size is and then drill the f/4.0 stop out. It may take a while before I get around to doing that though..

Thanks for doing this, good to know what is required before I start disassembling mine as well. I'd be happy to drill out the disk in mine given that I have a spare. Will wait for your tests on the optimal f-stop though!

dickb · Post by **dickb** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:06 am

Cameron, how do you intend to use your XNP 23/1.4 (no longer 4.0)? Just with extension or with a tube lens?

kaleun96 · Post by **kaleun96** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:18 am

dickb wrote:Cameron, how do you intend to use your XNP 23/1.4 (no longer 4.0)? Just with extension or with a tube lens?

Likely a tube lens such as the Redrock Micro 5x. It's a decently high magnification but I think I've pushed the 23/1.4 to about 6.5x or 7x already without issue. Super small DOF though.

dickb · Post by **dickb** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:22 am

kaleun96 wrote:
dickb wrote:Cameron, how do you intend to use your XNP 23/1.4 (no longer 4.0)? Just with extension or with a tube lens?
Likely a tube lens such as the Redrock Micro 5x. It's a decently high magnification but I think I've pushed the 23/1.4 to about 6.5x or 7x already without issue. Super small DOF though.

OK, I'll try and include that one in my testing. If and when I get around to it - these optical tests have a way of being very time consuming if you try and do it correctly. In the next weeks I'll probably won't have the opportunity.

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:32 am

I have access to a laser cutter. It's about 80W so won't cut metal afaik. Any suggestions what would be suitable material for a stop?

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:50 am

I now use very thin rigid plastic, because it doesn't leave fuzzy or jagged edges when cut, and doesn't release fibers.

ChrisR · Post by **ChrisR** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:54 pm

Hmmm, anything specific?

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:12 pm

ChrisR, no, I find them by accident. Sometimes flat-sided plastic bottles can be cut up for this.

Tracing paper is a good substitute, not as fibrous as regular paper.

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:48 pm

Lou Jost wrote:ChrisR, no, I find them by accident. Sometimes flat-sided plastic bottles can be cut up for this.

Tracing paper is a good substitute, not as fibrous as regular paper.

I'm a little puzzled here. I thought Chris was talking about a stop, which I'd expect to be black and opaque. What have I missed?

--Rik

Lou Jost · Post by **Lou Jost** » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:01 pm

Matte black spray paint.