Mitutoyo 50x with chips in glass, tested

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Chris S.
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Mitutoyo 50x with chips in glass, tested

Post by Chris S. »

Recently, a forum member purchased a used Mitutoyo 50x/0.55 objective on eBay, and asked the vendor to ship it to me for comparison testing against my own specimen of the lens. On unpacking the eBay objective, I found a disturbing surprise--several nasty-looking chips in the front glass element:

Image


As these objectives are often used for industrial inspection (e.g. silicon wafers), I suspect that this lens was used to inspect samples of some rectangular item, and repeatedly bumped into the samples.

However, I wasn't terribly worried about the chips. As Charlie Krebs and others have written, a few chips constitute only a tiny percentage of the image forming area, and have little effect on image quality. This makes sense to me, though I've never before had a chance to test the point for myself.

More alarming to me was the way the vendor packaged the objective. Mitutoyo warns us not to "fall or drop" these lenses. And on the second-hand market, a moderate percentage (about 10 percent, in my experience) of used objectives are optically unacceptable. I suspect, but don't know, that a chief culprit in these cases is that the bad lenses have been bumped, jarred, or dropped.

Here is how the objective was packaged by the vendor. Who would ship a lens that costs $2700 new this way? :shock:

Image


Apparently, eBay vendor "goodnamestaken" would. I know of three Mitutoyo objectives he has shipped exactly so. You might think he is more used to shipping hockey pucks, but from his history, he has sold quite a few microscope objectives. He has nothing listed on eBay at present, but if you buy from him in the future, you might want to request better packing.

One test subject I find useful at this sort of magnification is a single, dark scale from sunset moth (Urania ripheus). These dark scales are physically and visually quite different from the well-known, metallic-looking scales found elsewhere on the same moth. I find them helpful because they have holes that one can see through, that are close in size to the resolution limits of these optics. For reference, here is a shot of the complete frame, through the lens being tested:

Image

For all images of wing scales in this thread, the following technical information applies: The camera was a Nikon D7100, which places 24 megapixels in an APS-C sized sensor; converging lens was my Bratcam Mitutoyo MT-1 tube lens assembly. Illumination was halogen continuous light through fiber optic light guides, with various modifiers. Shutter speed was eight seconds, after a 3-second delay to permit mirror slap to dissipate. Room was dark. Camera recorded jpegs. All are stacks assembled in Zerene stacker using PMax method, with "Preserve full DR" turned off and all alignment options turned off. Zerene Stacker outputs were saved as TIFF, then post-processed in Photoshop.

An image presented as above, at the 1024-pixel-wide resolution we share here at PMN--doesn't show much about the objective, other than that it isn't a total disaster. To learn more, we need to zoom in and compare with an identical image from a known objective. Here is a very tight crop, overlaid with one from my specimen of this lens. The half-micron scale bar coincides with the half-micron resolution claimed for this objective by Mitutoyo:

Image


What does this comparison tell us? Here are my thoughts:
  • 1) My lens is better than the test lens; the holes where we can see all the way through the wing scale are more clearly rendered with my lens, as are the dark structural boundaries between them.

    2) However, the test lens isn't all that bad. Would it be useful or fair to describe it as: My lens is resolving about one-third micron, while the test lens is resolving about two-thirds micron?

    3) I don't know what causes this difference. Is it the chips in the glass (doubtful, in my estimation), the provenance of the lens (possible, in my estimation), or manufacturing variation (probable, in my estimation)? I know from experience that multiple specimens of a single model of microscope objective usually vary in their rendering, when minutely observed. I'd be interested in occluding the chips with dark ink and re-testing, but I'll leave this for the lens' owner, and doubt, meanwhile, that it would make a noticeable difference.

    4) One should ignore any sense that the wing scale appears to shift between lenses. Notice that the see-through holes (bluish white), mostly do not seem to move. The wing scale did not move, and the images are in very tight register to one another. To the degree I understand the elements that create an appearance of movement, they can safely be regarded as "noise" for the purposes of this test.
So under close scrutiny, my lens seems a bit better. But is such a perceived difference meaningful in the real world? Here is a pudding shot*. It's a quick stack some of the sunset moth's shiny scales. Horizontal field of view is about 1/2 mm. Looks perfectly acceptable to my eye. What say others?

Image


Here's a crop of the above, layered with a crop from my lens. Source is the darker orange band to the right of the left-most flake of dust. I can easily see differences between my lens and the tested lens, and prefer mine. But these differences appear much less noticeable to me than in the earlier comparison with the dark wing scale. And I suspect that many forum members will find no meaningful differences at all (perception differs greatly from one person to another).

Image


My conclusion (though I welcome other viewpoints :D): If one's goal is to post high-quality, uncropped images on the Internet, either lens will likely work as well as the other. This is probably also true for producing prints, unless they are very large and scrutinized up close. However, if one's goal is to record details at the very limit of these optics' resolution, my specimen of the lens is preferable to the tested lens. Since I enjoy supporting research, and routinely work on elucidating details at the resolution limits of my optics, I prefer my own lens over the tested lens.

After reviewing my test shots within the return window, the buyer of this lens contacted the vendor about the unexpected chips in the front element. While these chips may not greatly impact image quality, they surely impact resale value. The vendor said he hadn't noticed the chips, and offered an appropriate partial refund that the buyer accepted. From my point of view, the transaction ended up as a fair deal for both, and a happy ending.

I also received and tested a 10x Mitutoyo objective from this vendor, which turned out to be an optical disaster. When contacted, the vendor returned the buyer's payment promptly and in full. So my standard advice remains: Don't be afraid to buy second-hand objectives--you can save a lot of money--but do so only with a return privilege, and test the objective against a known benchmark before accepting. If you lack the capacity to test the objective yourself, ask a forum member who has this capability to help you. Here at PMN, we help one another--so don't be afraid to ask.

Cheers,

--Chris


*The proof of the pudding is in the eating.


--edited for a few typos
Last edited by Chris S. on Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

I expect that you know this, but you can minimize flare caused by the damaged areas by blackening them.

alligator
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Post by alligator »

Very Interesting post!

I have a 10x Mitutoyo M plan APO (purchased new) that I scratched the front element of when I had an accident photographing a micro mineral on a quartz matrix. The scratch is smaller than the chips on the lens you are talking about here, but it is near the center of the element. It is hard to see with the naked eye but looks absolutely terrible under magnification.

I felt awful when I scratched my objective and considered getting a new one right off, but decided to use it for a while first and see if I really needed a new one. So far it seems to be preforming quite well, and I feel it may be damaged more in my mind than it is actually damaged functionally. Still, I will probably replace it at some point as the scratch does bother me.

Regarding used objectives: Although the Mitutoyo I spoke of above was purchased new, I have purchased a number of used objectives on ebay, including 2x and 20x M plan Mitutoyos, and a number of finite Nikon objectives, and have had good luck with all of them.

alligator
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Post by alligator »

Peter De Smidt wrote:I expect that you know this, but you can minimize flare caused by the damaged areas by blackening them.
What do you use to blacken them?

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

alligator wrote:
Peter De Smidt wrote:I expect that you know this, but you can minimize flare caused by the damaged areas by blackening them.
What do you use to blacken them?
I've heard of people using a black thin-line Sharpie, but what I've used is Krylon Ultra Flat Black spray paint, as suggested by Richard Knoppow. Spray into a plastic cup until you get enough liquid and then use a small brush to paint on the scratch/gouge/flaw. I'm sure that there are other viable options, the main requirement being that it's matte black.

alligator
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Post by alligator »

The scratch on the front element of my objective is too fine to accurately apply black paint to, without also getting it on the undamaged glass surface.

I wonder if the Sharpie would work ... perhaps the black would stick to the damaged area of the scratch and any excess on the undamaged glass would wipe off ???

abpho
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Post by abpho »

The full frame orange metallic scale shoot looks great for that lens. If it was bought at a good price then I'd be happy with the results. Pixel peeping isn't healthy. But it is very cool when you zoom into 400% and can still make out fine details. That level of detail won't ever be visible under regular viewing conditions.
I'm in Canada! Isn't that weird?

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Nice tests!

About the scratches & chips, remember that the main effect of those things is to redirect some fraction of the incoming light so that it spreads all over the image as veiling glare. Back in the days of film processing it was difficult to correct for this in postprocessing, but with digital most of the effects can be undone with a simple levels/curves adjustment.

If the blackening is difficult to apply, I wouldn't mess with it.

--Rik

MaxRockbin
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Post by MaxRockbin »

If this thread has emboldened anyone to buy a scratched Mitutoyo, this one just popped up on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitutoyo-M-Plan ... 4ae6959fec

$150 "buy it now" with free ship for a 5x M Plan NIR (near infrared) - with 14 day return for DOA.
"It has light scratches on lens but it still produce very good image."
If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough. - Robert Capa

Chris S.
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Post by Chris S. »

Gents, thanks for your comments! :D

If I owned this lens, I’d go ahead and blacken those chips—not because I think they are causing a problem (I don’t)—but because I’d like to compare results before and after to see if I can find a testable difference. But as the lens doesn’t belong to me and is working well, best to not fix what isn’t broken.
Peter De Smidt wrote:I've heard of people using a black thin-line Sharpie, but what I've used is Krylon Ultra Flat Black spray paint, as suggested by Richard Knoppow.
I had also thought about using an ultra-fine black Sharpie for this purpose. But then I realized that I’d seen what Sharpies look like when used on glass and photographed, as I’ve circled subjects of interest on microscope slides with Sharpies. (Such subjects include sunset moth scales within a strew, intended for lens testing. ;)) The ink is not actually black, but purple--closely resembling the most troublesome form of axial chromatic aberration.

Here are marks from an ultra-fine black Sharpie on a microscope slide. The upper line is with the marker lightly pressed, the lower area is with the marker pressed harder:

Image

My following sense is a bit irrational--using such a marker almost surely won’t cause an actual problem. But I wince at coloring a portion of my lens with ink that might give light passing through it the appearance of axial chromatic aberration.
abpho wrote:The full frame orange metallic scale shoot looks great for that lens. If it was bought at a good price then I'd be happy with the results. Pixel peeping isn't healthy. But it is very cool when you zoom into 400% and can still make out fine details. That level of detail won't ever be visible under regular viewing conditions.
Mischa, I know you didn’t mean "400%" literally, but you bring up something worth my pointing out. The cropped, animated gif of the orange metallic scales displays, here on PMN, very much as a 100 percent view does in Photoshop. The other animated gif, of the dark wing scale with the half-micron scale bar, displays here closely to what a 200 percent view looks like in Photoshop—at least on my monitors. In my experience and on my monitors, a 200 percent view in Photoshop corresponds closely to what a good-size print looks like. For 24x36-inch prints, I want a 300 percent view in Photoshop, on my monitors, to look right. But I have no idea if this is true for other people’s monitors, settings, and perception.

For photographers producing images for the Web, these crops likely do constitute pixel peeping. But for photographers producing images for print or scientific analysis, these crops may represent real-life situations.

Alligator, I’d suggest you send your scratched 10x Mitty to me for comparison against my specimen of the lens, which is excellent. I can lay up some test images that will let you judge clearly whether or not your lens is delivering top results. PM me if interested.
alligator wrote:I wonder if the Sharpie would work ... perhaps the black would stick to the damaged area of the scratch and any excess on the undamaged glass would wipe off ???
From testing, I can attest that Sharpie ink does not "wipe off" glass. But it does come off easily with a swab (I use PEC pads) wetted with isopropyl alcohol, a safe solvent for most objectives. What you’re suggesting reminds me of intaglio printing, where ink remains in scratched areas of the printing plate, and is wiped off the surrounding surface. But in intaglio processes, the scratches need to be fairly deep—to the degree that they are often etched with acid to make them deep enough. I suspect the scratches on your lens are not very deep, so leaving ink inside them, while removing it around them, might be difficult. Before resorting to such work, I’d want to have the lens tested, to see if the scratches are even an issue. There is an excellent chance that they have no noticeable effect.
alligator wrote:Regarding used objectives: Although the Mitutoyo I spoke of above was purchased new, I have purchased a number of used objectives on ebay, including 2x and 20x M plan Mitutoyos, and a number of finite Nikon objectives, and have had good luck with all of them.
All my objectives—Mitutoyo infinites and Nikon finites—have been purchased used, and I have a few dozen of these. I’ve also tested quite a few dozen objectives for other folks. If you’ve had good luck with every one of your purchases, you’re lucky. As mentioned earlier, my return rate (both for my own objectives and recommendations for other purchasers) is about ten percent. Given that used objectives typically cost a third to half of what a new objective runs, buying used is a good bet—so long as you test, and return any bad lenses.
MaxRockbin wrote:$150 "buy it now" with free ship for a 5x M Plan NIR (near infrared) - with 14 day return for DOA.
"It has light scratches on lens but it still produce very good image."
Matt, if someone buys this lens, I hope they will send it to me for evaluation. I've long wondered how a Mitutoyo near-infrared objective would compare, in visible light, with a regular (visible light optimized) Mitutoyo lens. Having studied Mitutoyo’s literature on the subject, I suspect that their NIR objectives might work reasonably well in the visible light spectrum. But in optics, we rarely get something for nothing. So I’d welcome a real-world test, and would be happy to conduct it.

Cheers,

--Chris

--edited typos
Last edited by Chris S. on Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Peter De Smidt
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Post by Peter De Smidt »

If I needed to fill in defects these days, I'd use something like: http://www.pelikan-shop.co.uk/shop/Puls ... l-17-black

One could always try some black electrical tape over the roundish damaged areas to see if blackening has any effect in these circumstances. It's reported to work best with longer focal length lenses.

Chris S.
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Post by Chris S. »

Peter De Smidt wrote:If I needed to fill in defects these days, I'd use something like: http://www.pelikan-shop.co.uk/shop/Puls ... l-17-black
Thanks, Peter, for the link to an intriguing product. If I were to try it, I'd first paint it on a microscope slide and take photographs with transmitted light, to see how it looks.
One could always try some black electrical tape over the roundish damaged areas to see if blackening has any effect in these circumstances.
Another excellent idea, and one I hadn't thought of. But since the 50x Mitty with chips doesn't belong to me, I'd rather not risk placing even the adhesive from electrical tape within the chips, so will leave this sort of experimentation to the objective's owner.
It's reported to work best with longer focal length lenses.
Ouch! As you likely know, the Mitutoyo 50x/0.55 objective has a focal length of 4mm. Quite short!

Cheers,

--Chris

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