Automatic macro rail

augusthouse · Post by **augusthouse** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:15 am

Looks like we need a couple of images of this gizmo in this thread. Can you arrange that Linden?

The base plate/rail of the unit. Is that an Arca-Swiss dovetail?

The standard camera mount in the image looks like it would be responsible for considerable load especially in the field or in a vertical setup?

An Arca-Swiss compatible clamp at the top would be nice.

Craig

morfa · Post by **morfa** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:23 am

Linden wrote:John, that image is fantastic, was it with flash ? The StackShot could do 30 frames very quickly, limited by the flash recovery time

Thank you! No, it's natural light, 1s per exposure.

With living bugs it is often easier to do this successfully if you don't start firing multiple flashes at them – they often take this as a wake up call. Sometimes flash works though and of course it has the benefit of allowing you to work faster.

I'm sure it has been or will be considered but I mention it anyway: If there will be a simple two-button version it should be compatible with Nikons inferior (compared to Canon's) MLU so that when the button is pushed it only steps the motor every other time (i.e after an exposure is made)!

/John

Linden.g · Post by **Linden.g** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:26 am

Some more details for the automatic rail as requested by augusthouse
Looks like we need a couple of images of this gizmo in this thread. Can you arrange that Linden?
This is a pre-production example, product will have an anodised finish

The base plate/rail of the unit. Is that an Arca-Swiss dovetail?

Yes that is correct its a Arca dovetail. Both the top plate and bottom plate are attached by screws so customisation options could offered as part of the product line.

The standard camera mount in the image looks like it would be responsible for considerable load especially in the field or in a vertical setup?

Yes that will be the case but the top mount is very solid and the user requirments asked for the rail to handle the full load of a camera and two large flash units plus brackets. The controller compensates for load by applying a constant force to the drive shaft and will work vertically with load. I'll be testing this capability shortly.

An Arca-Swiss compatible clamp at the top would be nice.

See above

annotated versions here http://www.flickr.com/photos/13084997@N03/4278265499/
Linden

Linden.g · Post by **Linden.g** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:41 am

Here is the controller

Linden

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:42 am

morfa wrote:... with Nikons inferior (compared to Canon's) MLU so that when the button is pushed it only steps the motor every other time (i.e after an exposure is made)!

/John

Well different but not necessarily inferior

I like it myself - I program / control the time between M-up and fire to suit different setups. Also you can substantially reduce shutter delay issues for moving subjects when shooting with the mirror already raised. Back on track - your two buttons are morphing to "two plus one for this, one for that, one for the other thing , ...." !!

In a case like this it is hard to please everyone with a very simplified interface. The trick is trying to find the sweet spot.

I write control software for myself so it is easy, until I come back to something 6 months later and try and work out just exactly what logical path my mind might have been following back then

Andrew

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:08 am

"With living bugs it is often easier to do this successfully if you don't start firing multiple flashes at them – they often take this as a wake up call."

Bugs are only torpid because they are waiting to warm up. If you have ever fired a flash close yo your hand it gives out considerable heat, an ideal way to warm them up part way through a stack!

What sort of price is it intended the slide and controller will sell at?

DaveW

RogelioMoreno · Post by **RogelioMoreno** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:16 am

Linden,

I look very well made.
I would like to know price of:
- The complete system (rail + motor + controller)
- The rail alone.

Rogelio

morfa · Post by **morfa** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:21 am

The reason I think it's inferior to Canon's is that it only allows you to make one exposure before the mirror slams right back down and you have to lock it up again. If I understand things correctly Canon lets you do as many exposures as you want with the mirror locked up (Live View). Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Also (somewhat related to this) last time I checked Nikon's Live view implementation for some strange reason made the mirror slam down right before an exposure was made. As far as I know this has not been fixed yet?! I would love to be wrong about this since it's one of the main reasons I'm putting off buying a new camera body.

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:43 am

The Canon Liveview apparently does strange things if you want to use flash and starts popping the mirror down and up again so the bottom line is everything has it's own niggles !

Andrew

Linden.g · Post by **Linden.g** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:45 am

Rogelio and Dave

Pricing structure has yet to be fixed. But now would be the time to have input into that so that Cognisys could pice to be competitive. How many users do you think would want to fix the drive and controller to other rails on the market ? Would you like to see this as an option ie purchase without the rail.

Linden

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:49 am

morfa wrote:If I understand things correctly Canon lets you do as many exposures as you want with the mirror locked up (Live View). Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Even not using flash, my Canon T1i cycles the mirror down and up again at the end of every exposure in Live View mode. I vaguely recall reading that other Canon models are different -- something to do with whether the mirror and shutter are driven by one motor or two. But I cannot quickly find the reference for that, and as I said, the memory is vague.

--Rik

morfa · Post by **morfa** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:00 am

Rik, I believe there is a more advanced Live view in Canon 40D "and up". Here is a summary of the different Live view implementations: http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/articles/l ... ock_up.htm

Unfortunately it doesn't say anything about multiple exposures there but it's my understanding that you can do this with the 7D and possibly 5DII (I'll see if I can get this confirmed).

Edit, see here: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090 ... neos7d.asp
It says "Mirror lock-up (once or multiple exposures)"

AndrewC, Yes I saw that saw the mirror issues with flash now that I had a closer look. I presume it's only with TTL-flash though – PC-sync should work without problems?

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:11 pm

morfa wrote:...
..I presume it's only with TTL-flash though – PC-sync should work without problems?

Seems not to be the case which is a shame

Andrew

DQE · Post by **DQE** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:49 pm

AndrewC wrote:
morfa wrote:...
..I presume it's only with TTL-flash though – PC-sync should work without problems?
Seems not to be the case which is a shame

Andrew

Some ad-hoc thoughts re flash options, live view, etc:

Wouldn't it be practical to simply set the flash to manual (after first pre-tested the settings for achieving a reasonable but not necessarily perfect exposure)?

I often do this for routine, single-exposure field macro shots to avoid the bug-frightening pre-flash that Canon's ETTL option uses. The ETTL pre-flash scares some bugs and they fly away before the primary flash is triggered, especially doli flies. Canon's flash-lock test exposure essentially makes one pre-flash test exposure and uses it for the subsequent exposures - or is it just for one subsequent exposure?

I could see using this flash lock method on an nearby background just before starting the automatic stacking gadget. With raw exposures, there is of course a fair amount of latitude for improper exposures, by correcting them during post processing. Having 16 bits per pixel helps when using raw exposures and the latest camera bodies also have more bits in the A-to-D converter (14 bits on my 5DII, for example).

Another point - one usually has to set Flash Exposure Compensation (FEC) with Canon's flash units to compensate for the brightness and distance of the background vs the actual subject. I suspect that Nikon's flash algorithms are better but have never used them. However, after a little practice, you can usually set the FEC quite accurately without taking a test shot - mostly, it's a matter of judging how far away the background is and how light the background is. If you've not tried this, it must seem like a lot of trouble but it really isn't IMO. Thus, manual exposure with pre-established settings isn't much extra effort either, after you acquire some experience.

Basically, field macro photography requires a heck of a lot of practice and manual skills, but highly effective automation would be welcome by most of us, I believe. Yet some people are so skilled at these arts that they probably wouldn't benefit from automating the basic tasks - Lord V in particular comes to mind, and he's not the only one with what seem to me like supernatural field macro abilities!

I need to re-read my 5DII camera manual re live view and flash modes - I seldom use live view since I'm so familiar with viewfinder-based photography. I've come to suspect that Live View for field macro is something some people get used to and enjoy while others are used to viewfinder-based field macro work.

Interesting posts and an interesting thread.

AndrewC · Post by **AndrewC** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:04 pm

DQE wrote:....

Some ad-hoc thoughts re flash options, live view, etc:

Wouldn't it be practical to simply set the flash to manual (after first pre-tested the settings for achieving a reasonable but not necessarily perfect exposure)?

......

I need to re-read my 5DII camera manual re live view and flash modes
.....

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... php?t=8883