Object movie rig

Graham Stabler · Post by **Graham Stabler** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:30 am

Two other Luminera cameras may be perfect:

http://www.lumenera.com/industrial/lw11059.php

And

http://www.lumenera.com/security/le11059.php

I think the first one may make the most sense, you can get it with an F-mount at a price of 5308Euros and it does allow hardware triggering.

Or what about these bad boys:

http://www.piacton.com/products/imcam/m ... ult.aspx#7

Pretty nice, I'm getting quotes now.

Graham

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:54 am

Graham,

When you really start looking, there are quite a few nice cameras out there!

Although it doesn't indicate it on the spec sheet (or anyplace on their website), the Luminera 4-11 is available with the same i/o as the industrial and security versions you mentioned. The 4-11 "scientific" version uses a different (and supposedly higher quality) filter in front of the sensor that is "optimized" more for microscope imaging. Also my understanding it that the sensors are the "selects" out of a batch.

I'm not pushing that particular camera... I don't know enough about them and their competition to make any judgments. It's just that I need corrective relay optics for my microscope optics (the "older" 160mm tube length finite style). It's hard to accommodate the small sensors on so many of the microscope/scientific cameras since most of the corrective relay optics made by the microscope manufacturers at that time were made to be used with 35mm (and larger) film formats. Couple that with the need for a global electronic "shutter" (and i/o control) for the many times I want to use electronic flash and the prospective camera list gets much shorter.

Oh yeah.... did I mention that the cost of these cameras is a big issue as well.

If you decide to go the DSLR route you should also consider the new Canon 450D/Rebel XSi. I have not looked into too much, but there have been significant changes to the "live view" mode. Also, true 14 bit color is possible. (And check out the the "DSLR Remote Pro"software by Breeze Systems).

Graham Stabler · Post by **Graham Stabler** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:25 pm

Actually when I asked for a quote on the Luminera camera (from Framos) they told me they had one in stock with a strange part code, they got back to me and it is cased as per the 4-11. I'm not sure which way the conversion went. The LW11059 is incredibly bad looking so I would be happy with the improved packaging.

I was very close to buying the 450D, it is so "cheap" I am almost tempted still.

Got the Kaiser column today, it's nice.

Cheers,

Graham

Graham Stabler · Post by **Graham Stabler** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:09 am

A few orders submitted today:

*Luminera Lw11057C 11Mpixel camera in infinity enclosure with IO (the 16Mpix units from Princeton were too rich for me)

*Nikon PB-6 Bellows

*Nikon PB-6E Bellows extension

*Nikon 50mm f2.8 NIKON Enlarging lens

*Reversing ring

*Nikon CF N Plan Achro 10x Objective

*RMS->T-mount, t-mount-> f-mount adapters from Edmund

Glad it's not my money, wish it was my gear

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:10 am

Love to hear some feedback as you put together your project!

Remember though, in all our discussions on the 10X microscope objective it was emphasized that it barely "covered" the "APS" sized sensor of most DSLR's. When used on a full-frame (24x36mm) sensor typically you would want to use relay optics in the range of 2 to 2.5X.

Graham Stabler · Post by **Graham Stabler** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:26 am

Ah I missed that!

I don't always rush head long into things like this but in this case I don't have much choice. My work is biologically inspired design of flapping micro air vehicles, there is pressure for me to move from inspiration to design sooner rather than later!

I will see if I can sort out a relay lens, perhaps I can make a tube up using edmund parts to go from the bellows to the camera. Although the only adapter I know that will go on to an f-mount lens side is to convert to c-mount so it could be a bit convoluted.

Any ideas appreciated.

Graham

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:16 am

I might be overlooking something, but it seems like a 2X teleconverter would do the trick. Those things are in the business of taking the center 1/2 of an image that would otherwise be focused on the sensor, and spreading it out to cover the whole sensor, without changing the focus.

--Rik

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:27 am

You are fine with the reversed El Nikkor (or any of the other "macro" lenses).

As for the 10X objective, since there is no chromatic aberration correction required, a Nikon 2X "tele-converter" would seem like a good thing to try. (Or a 1.4X with the lens extended 180mm). These combinations would ("on paper") makes the numbers work. You will need to test... you might not even need this much.

If the objective is extended to a higher magnification than 10X it will also "cover" more all by itself. Some testing would determine what bellows extension (and/or converter combination) will work best.

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:28 am

Sorry Rik... didn't mean to step on your toes!
I type (and think

) slowly.

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:26 pm

Not a problem -- I'm happy to hear that I was on the right track, and also that other people might take as long to think and write as I do.

Silly aside... I'm reminded of an old Beetle Bailey cartoon. The troops were observing Sarge laboriously hunt-and-peck his way through some reports, averaging about 3 words per minute. For some reason they were feeling generous that day, so they all kicked in to get Sarge an assistant who would take dictation and do the typing for him. That's when they discovered another bottleneck -- Sarge was only thinking at 3 words per minute too!

But hmmm, let me think about this...(slowly, of course

)... 3 words per minute is 180 words per hour, 1440 words per day, 350,000 words per year. Good grief, that's like 4 novels! Maybe 3 words per minute isn't bad at all -- presuming you can sustain it, of course!

--Rik

tonygt19 · Post by **tonygt19** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:22 pm

Hi Graham,
I'm working on something similar for species identification for the U.S. Army. I'm looking to create a looping movie of medically important insects that can be ported with mark up to handhelds like the iTouch , iPhone and various PDA's . An example is at < http://www.elenagt19.smugmug.com/galler ... 3683_LQGYJ > The downside is that high resolution in movies makes for enormous file sizes. This one has been compressed about 100 times and yet is still 8MB or so . So the view of the first 360 will take some patience unless you have a lot of bandwidth. On a handheld the hi-res version can be stored in flash memory so you get a much better image. This is a stereogram loop of an invasive Bark beetle species. The set up is completely manual at this time but I'm hoping to incorporate automation soon.
Cheers,
Tony

Graham Stabler · Post by **Graham Stabler** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:05 am

Thanks for the input Rik and Charles, a great sanity check!

While running last night I started to wonder if a teleconverter would work but I wasn't sure because although I know you can increase the magnification of a macro lens I wasn't sure if they were essentially a 2X relay lens, I find photographic speak frustrating sometimes as you tend to need to understand things in terms of more photographic speak and I'm clueless. I actually have a Sigma Nikon fit 2X teleconverter I can use, I bought it to use with a macro lens on the high speed camera I borrow but it doesn't fit, glad to put it to use.

One further sanity check, I have ordered a standard Nikon reverser but I suddenly wondered if the enlargers will have the same thread size??

Tony, that looks great!. It would seem to me that we would benefit from some of the technologies that microsoft have been developing called seadragon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-8k8GEGZPM

http://labs.live.com/Seadragon.aspx

Hopefully we can collaborate a bit as we have similar goals, dissemination of information.

Graham

Planapo · Post by **Planapo** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:03 am

Graham wrote:

One further sanity check, I have ordered a standard Nikon reverser but I suddenly wondered if the enlargers will have the same thread size??

Graham,
the new version of the EL-Nikkor 2.8/50 mm (N) has a filter thread size of 40.5 mm. Hence, you will need (filter step up) adapter rings that get you to the diameter of your Nikon reverse adapter´s male thread.
Such step up adapter rings can be found on ebay.

Hope I understood your question.
--Betty

Graham Stabler · Post by **Graham Stabler** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:10 am

Thanks Betty, you got it spot on! Found a place that sells a good range and just ordered one:

http://www.vintagecameras.co.uk/stepping.htm

Cheers,

Graham

Harold Gough · Post by **Harold Gough** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:24 am

Graham Stabler wrote:While running last night I started to wonder if a teleconverter would work but I wasn't sure because although I know you can increase the magnification of a macro lens I wasn't sure if they were essentially a 2X relay lens,.
Graham

A relay lens seem to be more or less the opposite of a teleconverter. The former maintains the image size, whereas the latter magnifies it. Also, some relay lenses invert the image, not helful in photography.

Harold

Object movie rig

Object movies