Shutter speed vs magnification

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Harald
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Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Harald »

Hi good people,

Is there a calculator, table or formula that tells the safe shutter speed vs magnification?

From experience I've learned that you need a faster shutter speed at higher magnification

I always use live view and mirror lock-up
Kind Regards
Harald

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physicsmajor
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by physicsmajor »

If you're seeing blur at higher magnifications, it's more a commentary on your imaging system or environment than any real limitation inherent to shutter speed.

A perfectly rigid system in a room without drafts and a stationary subject - or one with an electronic shutter - should have performance entirely independent of shutter speed. Acquire photons for 1/1000s or 60 seconds, it wouldn't matter. There aren't tables for this or even rules of thumb because every system, environment, and subject is different.

That said, if your camera's shutter is the issue and there is no electronic shutter option the ability to mitigate boils down to increase the lighting on the subject, improve your system's rigidity, or consider flash.

Harald
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Harald »

Hi physicsmajor,

Thank you for your quick and clarifying answer

I will study my images, looks like it's some kind of motion blur

When I do my next run I will increase the ISO to get faster shutter

Have done many without any at 5x, but when I do 10x or 20x it looks like motion blur

Thanks for your time :D
Kind Regards
Harald

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Scarodactyl
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Scarodactyl »

physicsmajor wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:51 am
There aren't tables for this
Au contraire
Image
:lol:

Scarodactyl
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Scarodactyl »

Harald wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:07 am
Hi physicsmajor,

Thank you for your quick and clarifying answer

I will study my images, looks like it's some kind of motion blur

When I do my next run I will increase the ISO to get faster shutter

Have done many without any at 5x, but when I do 10x or 20x it looks like motion blur

Thanks for your time :D
Full info about your setup will clarify the issue. You'll want iso to be as low as possible.

Harald
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Harald »

My setup is Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8 with Mitutoyos on StackShot
It's set on a Manfrotto 055x proB and 410 geared head

The floor is concrete in the basement. No draft down there

That table you showed :smt007
Kind Regards
Harald

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rjlittlefield
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by rjlittlefield »

Does "live view" means that you are using electronic first shutter curtain but mechanical second curtain?

If so, then be aware that the mechanical second curtain can induce motion blur that gets worse with faster shutter speeds.

The underlying cause is that when the second curtain starts to close, it introduces motion in the image, which each part of the sensor will see until the curtain reaches that part. The side of the image that the shutter covers first will be sharp because it was exposed almost entirely during quiet time. But the side of the image that the shutter covers last sees the motion for significant time so it can be blurred.

The blur will be most visible when the total exposure time is about equal to the shutter movement time, so around 1/250 second with most cameras.

If your environment is quiet, and you are shooting with mirror lock-up and live view, then it is best to use a longer exposure time, say 1/30 second, so that almost all the exposure will occur during quiet time, for all parts of the sensor.

For more discussion, see https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 135#183135 , in the thread where this possibility was first raised.

--Rik

Harald
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Harald »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:10 am
Does "live view" means that you are using electronic first shutter curtain but mechanical second curtain?

If so, then be aware that the mechanical second curtain can induce motion blur that gets worse with faster shutter speeds.

The underlying cause is that when the second curtain starts to close, it introduces motion in the image, which each part of the sensor will see until the curtain reaches that part. The side of the image that the shutter covers first will be sharp because it was exposed almost entirely during quiet time. But the side of the image that the shutter covers last sees the motion for significant time so it can be blurred.

The blur will be most visible when the total exposure time is about equal to the shutter movement time, so around 1/250 second with most cameras.

If your environment is quiet, and you are shooting with mirror lock-up and live view, then it is best to use a longer exposure time, say 1/30 second, so that almost all the exposure will occur during quiet time, for all parts of the sensor.

For more discussion, see https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 135#183135 , in the thread where this possibility was first raised.

--Rik
Thank you so much Rik
Is there a difference of live view and mirror lock up?
BTW my camera is an EOS 5DsR

Edit:
When I use mirror lock up I can delay the time from mirror up to the shot is taken. The delay is 1/8 1/4 1/2 and 1 second delay
Kind Regards
Harald

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rjlittlefield
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by rjlittlefield »

Harald wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:31 am
Is there a difference of live view and mirror lock up?
Live view implies that the mirror is up and the shutter is open, while the live view is taking place.

Mirror lock-up only implies that the mirror is raised as a separate action, some significant amount of time before the shutter opens.

The exact behavior of these modes depends on the model of camera you have. It may be spelled out in the manual, but sometimes you have to figure out the details by simply observing what happens. Setting all the times to a few seconds, and making sure you don't blink, will let you see each step separately.

--Rik

quenoteam
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by quenoteam »

The solution I think is to use the Live view mode together with the silent shooting option (EFCS) Electronic Front-Curtain Shutter

You can read this article (use the google translator if you don't understand Spanish)

https://fotosmedia.net/explicacion-de-l ... ectronica/

Harald
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Harald »

quenoteam wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:19 pm
The solution I think is to use the Live view mode together with the silent shooting option (EFCS) Electronic Front-Curtain Shutter

You can read this article (use the google translator if you don't understand Spanish)
I did read some of the article and I did some Google as well. Found that a possible solution is to use "Live View" in "Silent Mode 1"

Know that I have used it without "Silent Shooting"

This I will try next time I am in my macro-studio

Thank you all for your kindness, you all have been to great help

Good to know that there is some nerds among us and we all are happy to help each other

All the best from Norway
Kind Regards
Harald

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Adalbert
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Adalbert »

Hi Harald,
In my case there is no dependency between the shutter speed and magnification.
I use ca. 1/5 sec for LED and 1/10 sec for flash.
- About 1/5 s for LED because of flickering (100Hz due to cheap power supply)
- 1/10 s for flash because of the reading time of the data from the chip
For big NA’s I use flash with the min. power (1/128).
BTW, I use only full electronic shutter
Best, ADi

Harald
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Re: Shutter speed vs magnification

Post by Harald »

BTW, I use only full electronic shutter
I've just ordered an EOS R7 #-o
Kind Regards
Harald

Lier Fotoklubb / NSFF
AFIAP / CPS
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