A couple macro questions

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Maray
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:23 am
Location: North Bergen

A couple macro questions

Post by Maray »

I'm in the market for a good macro lens, so I've been doing some research lately. I'll be using it more for insects than herps. I have a couple questions about macro equipment/techniques.

First, does anyone have experience using any of the Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar lenses? If so, what are your thoughts on it/them? They look to be high quality pieces of equipment (complete with a high-end price tag), but I've noticed that they only have a magnification up to 1:2, not 1:1.

Second, has anyone used a reverse mounted lens for macro work? I work with very small insects so a magnification greater than 1:1 would be helpful. Trouble is, I shoot Nikon and as far as I know there isn't a Nikon mounted lens with >1:1 magnification on its own.

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Adalbert
Posts: 2427
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Re: A couple macro questions

Post by Adalbert »

Hi Maray,
Do you need only 2:1 ( or more as 5:1 , 10:1, 20:1, 50:1 )?
Have you already taken a look at this one?
https://venuslens.net/product/laowa-25m ... a-macro-2/
Best, ADi

kaleun96
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:47 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: A couple macro questions

Post by kaleun96 »

Adalbert wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:47 am
Hi Maray,
Do you need only 2:1 ( or more as 5:1 , 10:1, 20:1, 50:1 )?
Have you already taken a look at this one?
https://venuslens.net/product/laowa-25m ... a-macro-2/
Best, ADi
Or the 100mm 2x is a good option too: https://venuslens.net/product/laowa-100 ... macro-apo/

My only complaint with that lens is that the Canon mount gets electronically-controlled aperture while all the others are manual but cost the same. The aperture ring turns extremely easily so I find I often end up accidentally adjusting the aperture with my hand when shooting in the field. I might get a wide rubber band to wrap around it and the body of the lens to stop it from moving.
- Cam

Ichthyophthirius
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 am

Re: A couple macro questions

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Maray wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:45 am
I'm in the market for a good macro lens, so I've been doing some research lately. I'll be using it more for insects than herps.

Second, has anyone used a reverse mounted lens for macro work?
Hi,

Are the insects very mobile? There's a big difference between bugs that you can approach to within a few centimetres (great for reversed lenses) and winged insects that will flee quickly as you approach (then you'll need the longer working distance of a macro (or even telephoto) lens).

There are some nice examples taken with a reversed zoom lens here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bruce_woo ... 559819208/ from a recent discussion viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42379

I tried a few reversed primes and enlarger lenses on fast-moving insects but I found that for me it was impossible to focus correctly without a wide open lens. Macro lenses (usually go up to 1:1) work well for me because of the automated aperture (you focus while the lens is wide open, then the camera closes the aperture just for the duration of the shot). One reversed prime lens worked well for me (EF 40mm used at 1.5:1), but only because I used a reversing adapter for an automated aperture.

Using this Venus lens at anything past 1:1 and with a partially closed aperture (like f5.6) must be very dimmly illuminated - I don't know how I would focus it on a fast-moving insect (maybe in continuous burst mode :) )

I would say go for a 1:1 macro lens first ... there are good and affordable used options from Tamron and Sigma (90 mm, 105 mm) ... unless you really want to learn macro the hard way, then used a reversed 35 mm or 50 mm prime lens.

Regard, Ichty

joshmacro
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:25 pm
Location: New York

Re: A couple macro questions

Post by joshmacro »

kaleun96 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:27 am
I would say go for a 1:1 macro lens first ... there are good and affordable used options from Tamron and Sigma (90 mm, 105 mm) ... unless you really want to learn macro the hard way, then used a reversed 35 mm or 50 mm prime lens.
Yes, Sigma Macro 105mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM is a good option for Nikon that's not that expensive. I use it on my Nikon D750 and get good results. It's very sharp.

kaleun96
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:47 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: A couple macro questions

Post by kaleun96 »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:36 pm

Using this Venus lens at anything past 1:1 and with a partially closed aperture (like f5.6) must be very dimmly illuminated - I don't know how I would focus it on a fast-moving insect (maybe in continuous burst mode :) )
The only issue I've had in regards to this is that the focus peaking doesn't work so well but on a Sony camera you could tie Live View = Off to a custom button to get a brighter image to help compose the shot but this may only work for the display and not the view finder.
- Cam

Arnstein Bjone
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:13 am
Location: Skien, Norway

Re: A couple macro questions

Post by Arnstein Bjone »

Warning! You are moving into dangerous territory! ;-)

I was happy with my 2005(?) Sigma EX 105 mm f/2.8 1x, and extension tubes (ET), for more than a decade.
I then joined a macro group at Facebook (FB) and soon realized I wanted to go up to 5x, without "cheap cheating" like reversing lenses and/or ET's. I'm a pixel peeper, and I like that "true" macro lenses give me more working distance (WD), which makes lighting and diffusing easier/better.
For 2x and above, I only work in my "studio" (a DIY-lightbox on a bookshelf), with dead models.

I exchanged my old Sigma 105 mm to the Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 Di VC USD (mod. F017), mostly to get (very good) image stabilization (IS). Or, VC as Tamron calls it (Vibration Compensation). VC is not very useful for macro, but you get a step or two advantage at 1x. For 2x the advantage is zero. Anyway, I shoot 100% manual (in my studio). I wanted the VC for all/most other kinds of photography.

If you have other lenses, like e.g. a (Tamron) 85 mm f/1.8, and don't need/want the VC/IS you should go for the Laowa 100mm 2x.
Gear reviewer Dustin Abbot likes it very much. It is apparently as good as free of chromatic aberrations (CA)...

Anyway, I bought the Canon MP-E 65 mm f/2.8 1-5x. Convenient and good WDs (42-100mm (5x-1x)), but quite a lot of CA (it was developed in 1999...). It is possible to get almost all of it (purple/green fringes), but a IQ-cost (edges get soft)

And, of course, I stack. Usually 50-300 images, but often up to 500.

Back to the "warning"; Magnification is a kind of addiction. I'm at 10x now, and that seems to be where the addiction stops..? Not much interesting above 10x, just a lot more work, in my eyes.

I bought 3 cheap microscope objectives (8/17/27 USD), but I soon realized that those were not good enough for a pixel peeper like me, especially when I shoot only a full-frame (FF) camera. (Cheap MO = (very) short WD and they are unsharp outside the APC-rectangle + a lot of CA, at least those I has experience with)

I now have Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 10x 0.28 f/200. The new price is ca 900 USD. I got one used at eBay for 408 GBP (530 USD), mint condition. Robert O'Toole (Closeuphotography) says "Be very careful if buying Mitutoyos from China"

At 10x an object of 3.6 mm fill my sensor. It is really a lot of fun!

Will I sell the MP-E and buy a Mitutoyo 5x instead...? Maybe, but is nice to have 1-5x though...

Image

Image

Thagomizer
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:24 pm
Location: London Ontario

Re: A couple macro questions

Post by Thagomizer »

Maray wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:45 am
I'm in the market for a good macro lens, so I've been doing some research lately. I'll be using it more for insects than herps. I have a couple questions about macro equipment/techniques....

Second, has anyone used a reverse mounted lens for macro work? I work with very small insects so a magnification greater than 1:1 would be helpful. Trouble is, I shoot Nikon and as far as I know there isn't a Nikon mounted lens with >1:1 magnification on its own.
I'm the guy whose thread Ichthyophthirius linked to above. I'm delighted to be so referenced; thanks! Here's my perspective, for what it's worth.

I've done a fair amount of macro shooting using reversed lenses, both zoom and prime, as well as reversed D-mount cine lenses. Unless you're shooting in a system for which third party manufacturers offer automated reverse adapters, you're immediately dealing with loss of automatic diaphragm, loss of aperture control from the camera, and loss of autofocus. If you're willing to accept these limitations from the equipment end, then you're good to go. You've been warned!

I shoot hand-held single shots out in the field on APS-C. Going with the higher magnification that reversed lenses shorter than 50mm offer imposes additional restrictions over and above those listed above. Depth of field is further reduced above 1:1, so placement of the plane of focus for single shots becomes critical. Working distances will are shorter, though never less than the registration distance of the lenses you're reversing. (This is an advantage over normal orientation shooting using extension tubes, as wide angle lenses on too much extension will result in the point of focus ending up inside the lens itself.) Larger insects will more than fill the frame, but that's fine if you're going for portraiture, which I often am. Subject and camera motion can make shooting harder, as higher magnification makes any movement proportionately greater. Winds and breezes are a pain in the #####. My older hands shake more than they used to, and IBIS can only help so much. Faster moving insects are difficult to shoot, as focusing precisely where you want can be tricky and fleeting. If you can get them when they've stopped to feed, or while they are slow and sluggish in the morning, this can help.

You have to decide if these limitations and drawbacks are ones you can live with, whether the shooting experience and results are worth it for you. For me, I don't mind the slight inconvenience I've imposed on myself. Even though some days I don't get a lot of keepers, when things do work, I'm very pleased with what I get, which makes it rewarding. Here are some links to more of my results:

(Some images in these albums are 100% crops to show details better)

Reversed 35mm prime: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bruce_woo ... 1353879561

Reversed Kinotel 1.5" f1.9 D-mount cine lens: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bruce_woo ... 9628168547

Reversed Cine Yashinon 38mm f1.4 D-mount cine lens: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bruce_woo ... 6024710707

Reversed EL_nikkor 50mm f2.8 (some with Vivitar 2X Macro Focusing Teleconverter): https://www.flickr.com/photos/bruce_woo ... 5008921633

This is a short article on reverse macro techniques that was published on photographylife.com: https://photographylife.com/reverse-len ... hotography

Try it out and see what happens. If you can play around with equipment you've already got, so much the better. With lens reversal, you're not tied to a particular lens mount, unless you go for automatic reverse adapters. It's fun to find hidden gems: I wouldn't have thought I could get such results from a kit lens (if I do say so myself).

Hope this is useful,

Bruce

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