When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

A forum to ask questions, post setups, and generally discuss anything having to do with photomacrography and photomicroscopy.

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Beatsy
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When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Beatsy »

I bought a diamond scribe a few years ago and took some shots of the tip as soon as it arrived. It was smooth, conical and uninteresting! I wasn't too hot at lighting shiny stuff back then so the metal surfaces came out pretty ugly too. In short, the outcome was dead boring and I began to doubt the tip really was diamond too. It worked for what I needed though, so I just carried on using it. Including the other day when I was using it to scratch glass (for an extreme macro art project that's ongoing). I noticed it kept trying to take it's own line when held certain ways - something it had never done before. I put it under a stereo and found I've fractured the tip at some point. Not the disaster you might think though. That tip now cuts much better in certain orientations and is a LOT more interesting to look at too!

So what was supposed to be a quick look turned into a stacking session! Yet another rabbit hole inside yet another distraction I'm already diverted into. Anyway, after setting up some simple lighting (dome and two halogen goosenecks) I did a 300-image stack using a 5x mitty at 5x onto APS-C...

...and was absolutely gobsmacked at the straight-out-of-zerene results I got using straight-out-of-camera images. This (kind of) subject really suits DMAP with almost no artefacts produced at all. I cloned out a couple of small, soft, background blobs on the bottom edge, but everything else was as required. DMAP's accurate colour rendering *really* helps with the metal rendering too. Gorgeous! And the stereo, rather than being a curiosity (with a not-very-stereo-impressive subject) really helps the new shape of that tip stand out clearly. Much better than the 2d view alone (IMO).

All good stuff. Though the ease of this stack made me wonder if I shouldn't ditch insects with all their sticky-out hairy bits, limbs and wings. Worms! That's the answer!. Totally evolved to be compatible with perfect DMAP stacks :D

Cheers
Beats

PS. I put this in techniques as I think that's where the subsequent discussion will go (if there is any of course).
As shot, but flipped horizontally with a few distractions edited out (compared to stereos)
As shot, but flipped horizontally with a few distractions edited out (compared to stereos)
Rotated 90 degrees, otherwise all straight out of camera (and Zerene)
Rotated 90 degrees, otherwise all straight out of camera (and Zerene)
Last edited by Beatsy on Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

rjlittlefield
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine!

Post by rjlittlefield »

Lovely! Yep, convex geometry with fine detail everywhere, a perfect subject for depth map methods.

As always, I agree that the stereo adds a lot to my perception of the shape. Not nearly as much as in more ambiguous cases, though. In this case, I think I understand the geometry almost as well from the single photo. The difference is that I have to think about it instead of just seeing it.

--Rik

Beatsy
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine!

Post by Beatsy »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:35 pm
Lovely! Yep, convex geometry with fine detail everywhere, a perfect subject for depth map methods.

As always, I agree that the stereo adds a lot to my perception of the shape. Not nearly as much as in more ambiguous cases, though. In this case, I think I understand the geometry almost as well from the single photo. The difference is that I have to think about it instead of just seeing it.
Yes, you put it better than I did. I have to visually trace around the edges first with 2d, the 3d just socks you in the eye.
But then DMAP slaps you in the face :cry: Not good for reflective textured surfaces (different depths, obviously). But I think PMax did a nice job up closer (20x mitty), I like the starker, contrasty look here.
point stereo-sharpen-focus.jpg
Simple diffusion as before, with 3 light sources, but I stuck a couple of small pieces of blue and orange gel filter on the "lit through" diffuser globe for a teal-and-orange-like ambience. And piece of carbide paper as a gobo to enhance shadow contrast and place more shadow in the details (between the two filters). Since it's the techniques section, here's a pic of this mega-costly, super-high-tech lighting arrangement... :D
SMB00037-sharpen-stabilize.jpg

mawyatt
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by mawyatt »

Nice work, really like the stereo view. Agree it just "jumps" out to show the 3D effect.

Is that a Wemacro lens holder on the "tube lens" which looks like a Nikon 200mm F3.5?

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

Beatsy
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Beatsy »

mawyatt wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:57 am
Nice work, really like the stereo view. Agree it just "jumps" out to show the 3D effect.

Is that a Wemacro lens holder on the "tube lens" which looks like a Nikon 200mm F3.5?
Thanks. I can't find any brand on the lens! I call it "generic M42" but it is 200/3.5 so you may have solved a mystery.

Yes, the wemacro holder. I absolutely DETEST the look of the thing. A god-awful wart in an otherwise nice-looking setup. But I can't find anything else that so handily accommodates all the different lenses and configurations I might (and actually do) put there. Nothing comes close. So I grudgingly let it stay. Very grudgingly!

Pau
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Pau »

Nice work, Steve

I find the fracture surfaces of the tip the most interesting aspect: not just an irregular fracture but in most part clean cleavage planes.
Pau

Beatsy
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Beatsy »

Pau wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:24 am
Nice work, Steve

I find the fracture surfaces of the tip the most interesting aspect: not just an irregular fracture but in most part clean cleavage planes.
Ta. The fractures are the best bit for sure. I know diamonds are hard but brittle and relatively easy to cleave (aka break if "cleaved" by accident :D ) along the right planes. But the way the long (nearly) flat fracture abruptly changes direction and surface shape at the bottom is really very interesting. Makes me want to know what's happening in there...

mawyatt
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by mawyatt »

Beatsy wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:16 am
mawyatt wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:57 am
Nice work, really like the stereo view. Agree it just "jumps" out to show the 3D effect.

Is that a Wemacro lens holder on the "tube lens" which looks like a Nikon 200mm F3.5?
Thanks. I can't find any brand on the lens! I call it "generic M42" but it is 200/3.5 so you may have solved a mystery.

Yes, the wemacro holder. I absolutely DETEST the look of the thing. A god-awful wart in an otherwise nice-looking setup. But I can't find anything else that so handily accommodates all the different lenses and configurations I might (and actually do) put there. Nothing comes close. So I grudgingly let it stay. Very grudgingly!
If it works it works!!! Another option, maybe not so awful looking is the Heyjar Lens support. It's designed for various telephoto lens and adjustable, based upon an ARCA plate so very setup adaptable.

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

Pau
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Pau »

It happens that I own a much older brass mounted diamond scribe, so I've put it under the stereo. the tip was not conically cut but pyramid shaped cleaved (and the tip badly cleaved again by use). Interesting stuff, maybe eventually I'll put it under the stacking rig...if my laziness at 34 degree allows it
Pau

Beatsy
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Beatsy »

Next one on my list Pau. Race ya 😄

I'd like to know how they get the smooth, conical shape. The surface is kind of pimply rather than polished-looking. Weird...

rjlittlefield
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by rjlittlefield »

Beatsy wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:31 am
the way the long (nearly) flat fracture abruptly changes direction and surface shape at the bottom is really very interesting. Makes me want to know what's happening in there...
That is interesting. I notice that it happens right at the location where the perimeter of the diamond is embedded in the metal surround. I imagine one possibility is that the fracture propagated along the main cleavage plane until it reached that level, could not go any farther that way because spreading was prevented by the metal, and switched directions. Or maybe the initial fracture did keep on going, and then the relatively fragile exposed tip broke off in a completely separate step. An interesting final structure, either way.

--Rik

Smokedaddy
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Smokedaddy »

Excellent

Beatsy
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Beatsy »

mawyatt wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:08 am
...Another option, maybe not so awful looking is the Heyjar Lens support...
Thanks for the pointer, but I can't find anything support-like under "Heyjar" on Google. Do you have a link pls? Ta.

Beatsy
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by Beatsy »

Pau wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:14 am
It happens that I own a much older brass mounted diamond scribe, so I've put it under the stereo. the tip was not conically cut but pyramid shaped cleaved (and the tip badly cleaved again by use). Interesting stuff, maybe eventually I'll put it under the stacking rig...if my laziness at 34 degree allows it
I may as well put this one here. Last of the diamond tips for a while.

This is an old fashioned glass cutter. Wooden handle, flat, heavy metal head with slots in (for tapping scribed lines to crack them and for levering off thin cuts of glass respectively). Unlike Pau's description of his cutter, this one looks like a single, rough gem diamond. It appears to have been quite carefully arranged to provide the best cutting point and angle when the tool is held naturally for use too. The most interesting side is pictured (that weird 3-sided pyramidal structure). The others are relatively smooth. The diamond is clear white, not brown. That's a trick of the light (or lack thereof) reflecting internally from the brass surround.
2020-07-08-22-sharpen-stabilize.jpg
Finally - is there a word for the delayed shock when you realise (later) that you inadvertently did something that could have been catastrophic, but wasn't? In prep for shooting this point, I swapped out my 20x Mitty for the 50x then decided I wanted to go wider, not closer and swapped the 10x in instead. All this with the dome diffuser still in place as it was far enough away to remove the objectives. The fronts of the 20x and 50x *just* cleared the dome when unscrewed as they dropped down a little and could slide slightly "inside" the hole in the front - avoiding any contact with the front element. After getting the objective seated, I decided to alter the dome setup too and swung it up out of position. To reveal the diamond point I'd forgotten about!! It had been mere millimetres from the front elements of the Mitties I'd unscrewed in front of it and pointing directly out at them. Yikes and phew!!!

mawyatt
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Re: When DMAP and stereos shine! New pics added.

Post by mawyatt »

Beatsy wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:51 pm
mawyatt wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:08 am
...Another option, maybe not so awful looking is the Heyjar Lens support...
Thanks for the pointer, but I can't find anything support-like under "Heyjar" on Google. Do you have a link pls? Ta.
My bad, it's Hejnar Photo.


https://www.hejnarphotostore.com

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike

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