Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau
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Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
Hey everyone, I have an issue which I’m not sure there is an answer for. I’ve been photographing at 5x magnification some really tiny soil organisms lately but I am running into an issue. While attempting to photograph things like diplura or certain soft bodied mites, during the photos they dry out and it ruins the photo.
Also does anyone know how to “pose” invertebrates at this scale, when the mites die, their legs curl tightly underneath them, is there a way to prepare them where this won’t happen or where they will be stuck spread out? I love the quality of the images but taking photos of these rarely photographed inverts are very difficult for these reasons. I know that the soil organisms drying out is a very niche problem, even for this website but maybe someone has a tip.
Also does anyone know how to “pose” invertebrates at this scale, when the mites die, their legs curl tightly underneath them, is there a way to prepare them where this won’t happen or where they will be stuck spread out? I love the quality of the images but taking photos of these rarely photographed inverts are very difficult for these reasons. I know that the soil organisms drying out is a very niche problem, even for this website but maybe someone has a tip.
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
I don't know if this would work for mites but it sometimes works for plants: submerge them in water and photograph them through the water.
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Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
I don’t think I mentioned that I do focus stacks of the subjects but that might work. I’m trying to think practically of what I could use that would minimize distortion and still give me room to hold the subject using my tiny alligator grip tripod. I’ll think on that though, thank you!
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
I don't have a sense of what your tripod is, but for holding water without much distortion: Some of us make a small "aquarium" with a microscope slide for a back, cover slip for the front, and layers of adhesive caulk for the sides. At the numerical apertures of 5x objectives, you should be able to shoot through the cover glass and some water without significant spherical aberration.I’m trying to think practically of what I could use that would minimize distortion and still give me room to hold the subject using my tiny alligator grip tripod.
--Chris S.
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Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
That’s a great idea! Do you have a pic of what you mean you do with the caulk, I don’t full understand. I have all of those supplies already which is great, and my tripod is this tiny tripod with an alligator clip on it that came with my WeMacro rail.
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
There are microscope slides with wells in them, which would be easier.Some of us make a small "aquarium" with a microscope slide for a back, cover slip for the front, and layers of adhesive caulk for the sides. At the numerical apertures of 5x objectives, you should be able to shoot through the cover glass and some water without significant spherical aberration.
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
Here’s a nice, illustrated, write-up: Micro-Aquariums, by Christian Autotte. The ones I’ve made look like Christian’s upper example in the first image.Biollantefan54 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:14 amThat’s a great idea! Do you have a pic of what you mean you do with the caulk, I don’t full understand. I have all of those supplies already which is great. . . .
I agree, in the case of a vertical setup. For a horizontal setup, I’d make a “micro-aquarium.”
--Chris S.
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Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
Thank you so much for the link and the help! That is a really good idea, the mites I photographed are glued to the end of a needle which will make positioning a little awkward in the little aquarium but I think it’s doable. But now I’m wondering if there is a substance I could use that won’t require the needle, in water the mite would sink to the bottom, in a gel substance maybe it could be maneuvered or posed in it? Just thinking of theoretical options but I’ll definitely give that idea a try!Chris S. wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:22 amHere’s a nice, illustrated, write-up: Micro-Aquariums, by Christian Autotte. The ones I’ve made look like Christian’s upper example in the first image.Biollantefan54 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:14 amThat’s a great idea! Do you have a pic of what you mean you do with the caulk, I don’t full understand. I have all of those supplies already which is great. . . .
I agree, in the case of a vertical setup. For a horizontal setup, I’d make a “micro-aquarium.”
--Chris S.
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
The addition of gelling agents to hold a submerged subject steady has been discussed, but I don't recall off the top of my head what, if anything, folks have found to work.Biollantefan54 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:02 pmBut now I’m wondering if there is a substance I could use that won’t require the needle, in water the mite would sink to the bottom, in a gel substance maybe it could be maneuvered or posed in it? Just thinking of theoretical options but I’ll definitely give that idea a try!
If I were going to try it, my first thought would be to add polyvinyl alcohol powder to the water that the mite is in.
--Chris S.
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
Some of us use K-Y jelly on the bottom of the receptacle. For very delicate objects like micro-flowers, it causes distortion, but for something like a mite it would probably be ok.
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
This is a very different approach but an inverted microscope seems the simpler and more convenient approach (they are designed for this kind of work!)Biollantefan54 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:02 pm... in water the mite would sink to the bottom,
...
Just thinking of theoretical options but I’ll definitely give that idea a try!
Pau
Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
There are some potentially good ideas in this (page 213 Onwards)
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/ ... frontcover
I have kept small eggs developing on the raised glass 'table' in a Varley-type live box, putting a drop of water in the surrounding groove (it does need topping up, dependent on how dry the ambient air is)
https://www.microscope-antiques.com/liveboxes.html
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/ ... frontcover
I have kept small eggs developing on the raised glass 'table' in a Varley-type live box, putting a drop of water in the surrounding groove (it does need topping up, dependent on how dry the ambient air is)
https://www.microscope-antiques.com/liveboxes.html
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Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
That’s a nice idea too! I might need to invest in one of the vertical WeMacro stands, I think it might be a good idea if I plan on taking photos vertically.CharlesT wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:20 pmThere are some potentially good ideas in this (page 213 Onwards)
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/ ... frontcover
I have kept small eggs developing on the raised glass 'table' in a Varley-type live box, putting a drop of water in the surrounding groove (it does need topping up, dependent on how dry the ambient air is)
https://www.microscope-antiques.com/liveboxes.html
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Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)
Some other ideas might be to float the mites in viscous mountant like glycerol or microscope immersion oil. Those mite kill them, but they are tough little things.
Then there are procedures for killing, fixing, and mounting. There is Carnoys' fluid for killing and fixing (recipe is simple and online). Clearing the tissues thru organic solvents like xylene, then permanently mounting in Permount or Canada Balsam. I know I've seen preparations of small arthropods done in these ways where the legs are well extended and maybe that is an effect of the process forcing the legs out.
There are manuals on insect histology and insect pathology that can be found online.
Then there are procedures for killing, fixing, and mounting. There is Carnoys' fluid for killing and fixing (recipe is simple and online). Clearing the tissues thru organic solvents like xylene, then permanently mounting in Permount or Canada Balsam. I know I've seen preparations of small arthropods done in these ways where the legs are well extended and maybe that is an effect of the process forcing the legs out.
There are manuals on insect histology and insect pathology that can be found online.
Mark Sturtevant
Dept. of Still Waters
Dept. of Still Waters