Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

A forum to ask questions, post setups, and generally discuss anything having to do with photomacrography and photomicroscopy.

Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau

Biollantefan54
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:18 pm

Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Biollantefan54 »

Hey everyone, I have an issue which I’m not sure there is an answer for. I’ve been photographing at 5x magnification some really tiny soil organisms lately but I am running into an issue. While attempting to photograph things like diplura or certain soft bodied mites, during the photos they dry out and it ruins the photo.
Also does anyone know how to “pose” invertebrates at this scale, when the mites die, their legs curl tightly underneath them, is there a way to prepare them where this won’t happen or where they will be stuck spread out? I love the quality of the images but taking photos of these rarely photographed inverts are very difficult for these reasons. I know that the soil organisms drying out is a very niche problem, even for this website but maybe someone has a tip.

Lou Jost
Posts: 5933
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Lou Jost »

I don't know if this would work for mites but it sometimes works for plants: submerge them in water and photograph them through the water.

Biollantefan54
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:18 pm

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Biollantefan54 »

I don’t think I mentioned that I do focus stacks of the subjects but that might work. I’m trying to think practically of what I could use that would minimize distortion and still give me room to hold the subject using my tiny alligator grip tripod. I’ll think on that though, thank you!

Chris S.
Site Admin
Posts: 4037
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:55 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Chris S. »

I’m trying to think practically of what I could use that would minimize distortion and still give me room to hold the subject using my tiny alligator grip tripod.
I don't have a sense of what your tripod is, but for holding water without much distortion: Some of us make a small "aquarium" with a microscope slide for a back, cover slip for the front, and layers of adhesive caulk for the sides. At the numerical apertures of 5x objectives, you should be able to shoot through the cover glass and some water without significant spherical aberration.

--Chris S.

Biollantefan54
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:18 pm

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Biollantefan54 »

That’s a great idea! Do you have a pic of what you mean you do with the caulk, I don’t full understand. I have all of those supplies already which is great, and my tripod is this tiny tripod with an alligator clip on it that came with my WeMacro rail.

Lou Jost
Posts: 5933
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Lou Jost »

Some of us make a small "aquarium" with a microscope slide for a back, cover slip for the front, and layers of adhesive caulk for the sides. At the numerical apertures of 5x objectives, you should be able to shoot through the cover glass and some water without significant spherical aberration.
There are microscope slides with wells in them, which would be easier.

Chris S.
Site Admin
Posts: 4037
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:55 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Chris S. »

Biollantefan54 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:14 am
That’s a great idea! Do you have a pic of what you mean you do with the caulk, I don’t full understand. I have all of those supplies already which is great. . . .
Here’s a nice, illustrated, write-up: Micro-Aquariums, by Christian Autotte. The ones I’ve made look like Christian’s upper example in the first image.

Lou Jost wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:17 pm
There are microscope slides with wells in them, which would be easier.
I agree, in the case of a vertical setup. For a horizontal setup, I’d make a “micro-aquarium.”

--Chris S.

Biollantefan54
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:18 pm

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Biollantefan54 »

Chris S. wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:22 am
Biollantefan54 wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:14 am
That’s a great idea! Do you have a pic of what you mean you do with the caulk, I don’t full understand. I have all of those supplies already which is great. . . .
Here’s a nice, illustrated, write-up: Micro-Aquariums, by Christian Autotte. The ones I’ve made look like Christian’s upper example in the first image.

Lou Jost wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:17 pm
There are microscope slides with wells in them, which would be easier.
I agree, in the case of a vertical setup. For a horizontal setup, I’d make a “micro-aquarium.”

--Chris S.
Thank you so much for the link and the help! That is a really good idea, the mites I photographed are glued to the end of a needle which will make positioning a little awkward in the little aquarium but I think it’s doable. But now I’m wondering if there is a substance I could use that won’t require the needle, in water the mite would sink to the bottom, in a gel substance maybe it could be maneuvered or posed in it? Just thinking of theoretical options but I’ll definitely give that idea a try!

Chris S.
Site Admin
Posts: 4037
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:55 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Chris S. »

Biollantefan54 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:02 pm
But now I’m wondering if there is a substance I could use that won’t require the needle, in water the mite would sink to the bottom, in a gel substance maybe it could be maneuvered or posed in it? Just thinking of theoretical options but I’ll definitely give that idea a try!
The addition of gelling agents to hold a submerged subject steady has been discussed, but I don't recall off the top of my head what, if anything, folks have found to work.

If I were going to try it, my first thought would be to add polyvinyl alcohol powder to the water that the mite is in.

--Chris S.

Lou Jost
Posts: 5933
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Lou Jost »

Some of us use K-Y jelly on the bottom of the receptacle. For very delicate objects like micro-flowers, it causes distortion, but for something like a mite it would probably be ok.

Pau
Site Admin
Posts: 6038
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:57 am
Location: Valencia, Spain

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Pau »

Biollantefan54 wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:02 pm
... in water the mite would sink to the bottom,
...
Just thinking of theoretical options but I’ll definitely give that idea a try!
This is a very different approach but an inverted microscope seems the simpler and more convenient approach (they are designed for this kind of work!)
Pau

CharlesT
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:02 am

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by CharlesT »

There are some potentially good ideas in this (page 213 Onwards)
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/ ... frontcover

I have kept small eggs developing on the raised glass 'table' in a Varley-type live box, putting a drop of water in the surrounding groove (it does need topping up, dependent on how dry the ambient air is)
https://www.microscope-antiques.com/liveboxes.html
Canon 600d
Watson Service 1
Beck Epimax

Biollantefan54
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:18 pm

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by Biollantefan54 »

CharlesT wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:20 pm
There are some potentially good ideas in this (page 213 Onwards)
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/ ... frontcover

I have kept small eggs developing on the raised glass 'table' in a Varley-type live box, putting a drop of water in the surrounding groove (it does need topping up, dependent on how dry the ambient air is)
https://www.microscope-antiques.com/liveboxes.html
That’s a nice idea too! I might need to invest in one of the vertical WeMacro stands, I think it might be a good idea if I plan on taking photos vertically.

MarkSturtevant
Posts: 1942
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:52 pm
Location: Michigan, U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: Keeping micro subjects from drying out? (And posing?)

Post by MarkSturtevant »

Some other ideas might be to float the mites in viscous mountant like glycerol or microscope immersion oil. Those mite kill them, but they are tough little things.
Then there are procedures for killing, fixing, and mounting. There is Carnoys' fluid for killing and fixing (recipe is simple and online). Clearing the tissues thru organic solvents like xylene, then permanently mounting in Permount or Canada Balsam. I know I've seen preparations of small arthropods done in these ways where the legs are well extended and maybe that is an effect of the process forcing the legs out.
There are manuals on insect histology and insect pathology that can be found online.
Mark Sturtevant
Dept. of Still Waters

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic