Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

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jac B
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:01 am

Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by jac B »

Hi,

I want to start with dead wild bees macro photography (full frame DSLR) via a microscope infinity optical system (infinity corrected objective lens): DSLR+tube lens+plan APO. See my previous topic “microscope infinity optical system setup for wild bees macro photography?” (http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 28&t=42119), which topic is relevant for this topic. The lighting must move with the DSLR+tube lens+plan APO. A bee (specimen holder) must be tiltable in relation to the DSLR+tube lens+plan APO+lighting setup.

FYI, what i mean with a dome lighting setup: A Scalable and Modular Dome Illumination System for Scientific Microphotography on a Budget, See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... ulWl7yXK9Q;

Can you show your lighting in a DSLR+tube lens+plan APO setup with:
-dome lighting setup, diffusing light meant for minimizing shade;
-light sheet microscopy setup, a line of light meant for less disturbance by the out of focus for- and background;
-an angled beam, minimizing out of focus blur;

Which supplier(s) offer (off the shelf) dome lighting, light sheet?

Regards, Jac

Ichthyophthirius
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

jac B wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:24 am
FYI, what i mean with a dome lighting setup: A Scalable and Modular Dome Illumination System for Scientific Microphotography on a Budget, See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... ulWl7yXK9Q;
That's a great paper!

It shows what is the standard configuration for stacking: The light is corrected with the specimen, not the camera+objective. That way the illumination doesn't change as the objective moves during stacking.

It also answers one of your questions: Leica sells an illumination dome (I can't imagine it'll be cheap, though).

jac B
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by jac B »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:39 pm
That's a great paper!

It shows what is the standard configuration for stacking: The light is corrected with the specimen, not the camera+objective. That way the illumination doesn't change as the objective moves during stacking.

It also answers one of your questions: Leica sells an illumination dome (I can't imagine it'll be cheap, though).
Hi Ichthyophthirius,

Thanks for your appreciation.

I'm new to microscope infinity optical systems (dslr+tube lens+plan APO), don't understand everything. Based on what paragraph (page number) in the article did you come to your conclusion quote "The light is corrected with the specimen, not the camera+objective. That way the illumination doesn't change as the objective moves during stacking."?

Which (off the shelf) mounting accessories do I need to mount a Leica LED5000 HDI illumination dome into a dslr+tube lens+plan apo setup?

Regards, Jac

Ichthyophthirius
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

jac B wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:03 am
Based on what paragraph (page number) in the article did you come to your conclusion quote "The light is corrected with the specimen, not the camera+objective. That way the illumination doesn't change as the objective moves during stacking."?
Hi Jac,

I would say you see this in Fig 5. G+H and in Fig. 7. E+F.

The insect is inside the dome and the dome is placed on the stage. With the Leica Z16 APO is then moved relative to the stage (Fig. 5) and on the Leica DM2500, the stage is moved relative to the microscope. So the light is connected to the specimen, not the lens.

Think about it: If you take a torch and walk through a dark room, the shadows are changing as you move. That's a disadvantage for stacking. Better to leave the light in on place and move the camera. With perfectly diffuse illumination, that might not be a problem, but most setups still leave the illumination stationary relative to the specimen.

I don't know any details about the Leica LED5000 HDI illumination. There is a manual https://downloads.leica-microsystems.co ... ual_EN.pdf But we're talking about $1000+. The DIY dome looks much more affordable. I love the fact that it is a 1920s ZEISS design - unbelievable!

Regards, Ichty

jac B
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by jac B »

Hi Ichty,

Thats a lot of money for the lighting dome.

Thanks for explaining. Assumption: for a dslr+tube lens+plan apo setup it must be possible to move a plan apo (before or during stacking) into a lighting dome, due to working distance. Correct?

Regards, Jac

Scarodactyl
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Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by Scarodactyl »

I think Scienscope sells a much cheaper domd illuminator. That might at least serve as a starting point.

jac B
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by jac B »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:03 am
I think Scienscope sells a much cheaper domd illuminator. That might at least serve as a starting point.
Hi Scarodactyl,
Thanks for helping.
Regards, Jac

jac B
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by jac B »

FYI: Illuminating nature’s beauty: modular, scalable and low-cost LED dome illumination system using 3D-printing technology, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-69075-y#Fig1

Ichthyophthirius
Posts: 1075
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

jac B wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:27 am
it must be possible to move a plan apo (before or during stacking) into a lighting dome, due to working distance. Correct?
They also write something about this in the paper:

"Before constructing the mini-dome, we advise the user to determine the working distance of their lenses for this application. We have found that Plan-APO Leica lenses for metallurgical work (non-color corrected) have a working distance between 10–15mm at 2.5x to 5x; the 10x lens has a major drop-off, and we often have to position the specimen in the illumination dome very close to the oculus itself, lest we run the lens into the dome in trying to achieve focus."

So they try to keep the objective outside the dome. For short working distances, they have the minidomes. For the 10x, having a long free working distance is an advantage. If you want long working distance and high NA, the objective will be expensive.

jac B
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by jac B »

Hi Ichty,
Thanks for helping.
Regards, Jac

NikonUser
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Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by NikonUser »

NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

jac B
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:01 am

Re: Q: (dome, sheet, tilted) lighting for DSLR+tube lens+plan APO

Post by jac B »

NikonUser wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:03 am
How about:
https://www.microscope.com/120-led-diff ... -safe.html
Hi NU,
Thanks for helping.
I want to mount a 'lighting dome' on a mounting plate in the exact position as drawn in the attached file. Can you explain how to, because the dome you refer to has an upper ring attachment?
Regards, Jac
Attachments
Dome light 06082020_01.JPG

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