Help..which to choose...close up diopters or extension tubes

AFL · Post by **AFL** » Thu May 12, 2011 3:35 pm

Hi.

I am new to macro photography and I have a read dozens of threads and articles about it.

I came upon this:
http://forums.dpreview.com/...ms/readfl ... e=38183928

I have a 550D body and an 18-135 IS kit lens. I can not buy a dedicated macro lens right now so I want to maximize the use of my 18-135 IS kit lens.

Which is the best option:
1--use macro close up lenses/diopters?
which ones? what brand? what "+"?

2--use extension tubes? like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/...acro-Canon-exten ... 0476832818

3--use reversing ring?

4--use Raynox?

I would first start doing inanimate objects e.g. coins, jewels, bolts etc. then flowers, then eventually move on to caterpillars, spiders maybe and of course those flying insects e.g. flies, dragonflies, bugs, bees.

Again I would like to maximize the use of my 18-135 kit lens.

Should I also use a ring flash?
or just an ordinary hot shoe flash?

Any advise?

-AFL

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Thu May 12, 2011 4:19 pm

AFL, welcome aboard!

First, be aware that I deleted your accidental double-post into the Beginner's Micro forum, leaving this one here in Beginner's Macro.

Now, to answer your questions...

Raynox adapters will give you the best results. These are essentially very high quality closeup lenses ("diopters") that are also pretty powerful.

The DCR-150 would be a good choice to start. It is a +4.8 diopter lens, focal length about 210 mm. Used in front of your kit lens, it will go up to about 0.65X, so a field width of about 35 mm on your 550D.

If you want higher magnification than that, you could go up to the DCR-250 at +8 diopters, which will get you to a little more than 1:1, about 21 mm field width.

The extension tubes you indicate would be a disaster. They do not preserve auto diaphragm operation, which would make it very challenging to use the kit lens. Reversing rings have the same problem. In either case, the lens will run wide open if operated according to manufacturer's instructions. The only way to get it to stop down is to mount the lens on the camera, press DOF preview, and remove the lens while holding DOF preview with the camera powered on. This procedure is awkward and time-consuming, and while I've never heard a report that it caused any problems, it's not exactly described in the manufacturer's manuals either.

The other option to consider is purchasing a older used macro lens. That would give you both higher quality and more flexibility than adding Raynox to the kit lens, albeit with the usual risks of dealing in used lenses. At this moment there's a "Sigma 105mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro, for Canon AF" (item 260782403676) currently bidding at $150. It'll probably go for a lot more than that, but that's also a fairly new and high quality lens. One of the older non-DG's would be quite a lot cheaper. I haven't tracked to see how often they come up, though.

--Rik

AFL · Post by **AFL** » Thu May 12, 2011 4:31 pm

Hi Rik,

Thank you for your response.

Aside from the Raynox, which other brands would you recommend?

How about this? http://cgi.ebay.com/CLOSE-UP-MACRO-SET- ... 35ab8caeb9

What's your take on the flash? A ring flash? or hot shoe flash?

AFL

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Thu May 12, 2011 5:55 pm

At this time I cannot recommend any brands of closeup lenses other than Raynox. The key requirement is that they be at least 2-element "achromats". Otherwise you're going to get color fringing on the edges that you probably won't be happy with. The lenses that you link to have an attractive price ($40 for a set of 4), but that low price and the thin mounts also suggests that they're single element lenses that will give color fringes. Canon used to make good achromats, for example their "250D" (+4 diopter), but those were even more expensive than the Raynox and I believe they're no longer being made.

For flash on a tight budget, I'd recommend starting with just a home-made "light guide" that works in conjunction with your camera's built-in flash. I don't have any links handy, but perhaps somebody else who knows what I'm talking about can provide those.

--Rik

AFL · Post by **AFL** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:16 pm

Hi Rik,

I did some search on the Raynox and there are a lot of models. Which model/s can I use?
Why models/s?--because I am assuming there is different a model of Raynox for static subjects where the photographer can get up close and personal.
And I assume there is a different model of Raynox that allows a greater distance from the subject.
Of course this is considering that I will be using the 18-135 kit lens.

AFL

DrLazer · Post by **DrLazer** » Fri May 13, 2011 7:44 am

If I may Rik,

Which model/s can I use?

Look on Raynox's website. Often the higher powered diopters come with a recommended minimum focal length. They also come with "snap on" plastic adapters that will fit filter threads of xxmm -> xxmm depends which one you buy. Personally, I preffer to get a step up or step down ring for a solid central fit.

I am assuming there is different a model of Raynox for static subjects where the photographer can get up close and personal.

The Raynox diopters are all for close up work. There isn't a different version for "static" subjects. Take care though, Raynox also make fish-eye lenses, teleconverters etc. Just make sure it is a diopter you are buying and you will be gold.

And I assume there is a different model of Raynox that allows a greater distance from the subject

Errrr, kinda. It is mainly dependant on the focal length of the lens you are attaching the diopter to, but it will be chopped down significantly. e.g. 105mm Macro lens + Raynox DCR-250 will end up with about a 40mm (or so) focal length. The more high powered the diopter, the more the focal length will be chopped down. This is why Raynox recommend a minimum focal length for some of their more high powered diopters.

I would say get the DCR-250. The 150 is easier to use but offers less magnification. You will quickly want more if you take to it. The 250 is super popular so you should be able to land a good deal on ebay.

AFL · Post by **AFL** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:39 am

Look on Raynox's website. Often the higher powered diopters come with a recommended minimum focal length. They also come with "snap on" plastic adapters that will fit filter threads of xxmm -> xxmm depends which one you buy. Personally, I preffer to get a step up or step down ring for a solid central fit.

Have browsed throguh the Raynox website and I can not seem to know which is best for my 18-135 kit lens.
I read somewhere that the Canon 250D which has a magnification of +4 is for focal lengths between 50mm-135mm and that the Canon 500D is for FL's 70mm-300mm. What's your take on this?

I would say get the DCR-250. The 150 is easier to use but offers less magnification. You will quickly want more if you take to it. The 250 is super popular so you should be able to land a good deal on ebay.

So the Raynox DCR-250 would be fine for my 18-135 it lens with the type of macros I am planning on shooting?

Have you heard of the Marumi Achromat Macros? Are they any good?

DrLazer · Post by **DrLazer** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:48 am

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the Canon or Marumi branded diopters. However, I would be very very surprised if they offered anything like the quality of the Raynox ones. I have had my hands on panasonic branded ones before and the CA was uncontrollable.

I think you will be fine with the 250. It works through a range of focal lengths on most of my lenses. 50mm -> 500mm.

AFL · Post by **AFL** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:57 am

Thanks DrLazer

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:58 pm

The Canon ones are of very high quality. The Canon 250D (+4) costs considerably more than the Raynox DCR-150.

But I also think you will probably find you want more magnification than these would provide, so the Raynox DCR-250 may be the best bet.

ChrisLilley · Post by **ChrisLilley** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:25 am

rjlittlefield wrote:At this time I cannot recommend any brands of closeup lenses other than Raynox. The key requirement is that they be at least 2-element "achromats".

Rik, while the Raynox lenses are certainly good, they certainly aren't the only acromats on the market. The FAQ section has a list of close-up lenses.
I have had good results with Raynox, Nikon, and Marumi achromats. I have seen good results from the Canon achromats as well. The Nikon ones are discontinued; the Raynox, Canon and Marumi are current products.

ChrisLilley · Post by **ChrisLilley** » Sat May 14, 2011 5:39 am

DrLazer wrote:Unfortunately I don't know anything about the Canon or Marumi branded diopters. However, I would be very very surprised if they offered anything like the quality of the Raynox ones. I have had my hands on panasonic brande dones before and the CA was uncontrollable.

Your conclusion does not follow from your data. You report bad results from a Panasonic lens and conclude that the Canon and Marumi lenses - which you have not tried and have no information about - are poor.

What was the model number of the Panasonic lens?

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:33 am

ChrisLilley wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:At this time I cannot recommend any brands of closeup lenses other than Raynox. The key requirement is that they be at least 2-element "achromats".
Rik, while the Raynox lenses are certainly good, they certainly aren't the only acromats on the market. The FAQ section has a list of close-up lenses.
I have had good results with Raynox, Nikon, and Marumi achromats. I have seen good results from the Canon achromats as well. The Nikon ones are discontinued; the Raynox, Canon and Marumi are current products.

Well, what I said was "I cannot recommend", not "I recommend against". Those are different, but I agree they sound very much the same. The paragraph seemed clear when I wrote it, today not so much. Thanks for the clarification.

Thanks also for the link to the list of closeup lenses. I had forgotten that we had one of those.

Regarding the Canon Achromats, I'm still unclear just what the status is. Every time I've looked for the dang things for the last several years, they've been "temporarily unavailable" with no ETA. That's still true at B&H Photo, as I checked when I posted. But I see that Adorama does have a 52 mm 250D in stock today, although the 58 mm is still "currently back ordered", no ETA. Even at the Canon Direct store (HERE), the 52 mm 250D is the only one shown as "in stock". The 58 mm 250D and both 500D's are "out of stock". Do you have other information about these beasts?

--Rik

ChrisLilley · Post by **ChrisLilley** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:46 am

rjlittlefield wrote: Well, what I said was "I cannot recommend", not "I recommend against". Those are different, but I agree they sound very much the same. The paragraph seemed clear when I wrote it, today not so much. Thanks for the clarification.

Sorry if I sounded picky. I had visions of someone finding this thread in5 or 10 years and concluding 'only Raynox close-up lenses can be recommended'.

rjlittlefield wrote:Thanks also for the link to the list of closeup lenses. I had forgotten that we had one of those.

I just now spruced it up a little, adding a clear recommendation at the top to go for achromats, and adding some links and extra info on some of them (including the discontinued Raynox 3500, recommended by morfa).

rjlittlefield wrote:Regarding the Canon Achromats, I'm still unclear just what the status is. Every time I've looked for the dang things for the last several years, they've been "temporarily unavailable" with no ETA.

Hopefully not discontinued, just backordered and in low supply (as is the case with much Japanese-sourced photographic equipment, especially this year).

At least, if they do get discontinued, there are good alternatives in the +2.5 and +5 diopter range. The Marumi +5 seems quite good, to me. The discontinued Raynox 3500, on the other hand, included a +12 which doesn't seem to have a replacement from other manufacturers.

DrLazer · Post by **DrLazer** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:37 am

ChrisLilley wrote:
DrLazer wrote:Unfortunately I don't know anything about the Canon or Marumi branded diopters. However, I would be very very surprised if they offered anything like the quality of the Raynox ones. I have had my hands on panasonic brande dones before and the CA was uncontrollable.
Your conclusion does not follow from your data. You report bad results from a Panasonic lens and conclude that the Canon and Marumi lenses - which you have not tried and have no information about - are poor.

What was the model number of the Panasonic lens?

Actually I made no conclusion, I said I would be very surprised if they were as good as Raynox. The Panasonic model number is DMW-LC55. Thanks for adding the italics, it made for a much more pleasurable read.