Exposure Metering/setting

[waltknapp]

Recently I was told that Canon plans to phase out automatic exposure (A Mode) working with anything other than their chipped lenses. Sony has already done this, Some Nikon cameras as well. The idea being that we all can just set exposure manually for everything else. I was flat out told that everyone was so experienced in manual exposure setting that no one uses A mode anymore.

Am I the only one to find this disturbing? My experience in macro goes back to where there was no exposure metering at all in cameras, but I most certainly do use A mode exposure control a lot in macro and photomicrography. Don't really want to go back to nothing but manual though I do remember how to do it. It sure will slow down my shooting in the field. Especially if it's mixed ambient and flash.

Comments? How many here use A mode? How many are exclusively manual exposure setting?

Walt

[rjlittlefield]

I presume by A-mode, you're talking about user sets aperture, camera sets shutter speed. This is called "Av" on my Canon cameras. I use that from time to time, and I'm not happy to have it go away. It's the only way I know to get DOF priority and automatic exposure.

Or do you mean "P" mode, which is fully automatic: camera sets both aperture and shutter speed? I use that too, but perhaps not so often.

In either case, I've noticed a trend toward making the automatic modes only work with highly cooperative lenses.

This makes sense from a marketing standpoint, because it leans on people to buy the manufacturer's own lenses instead of third-party. That gives probably a bigger up-side gain than the down-side loss of annoying people with older lenses.

I suppose it might also make sense from an engineering standpoint, but if it does, I don't see the reason. Lenses that provide automatic stop-down already report their maximum aperture, which is all that's needed to know what will happen to the light intensity on stop-down. And if the lens can't even be stopped down by the camera, then cameras already know that. So it seems to me that the cameras have plenty of information to do the best possible thing given a highly cooperative lens, while still doing the pretty good thing they always have, with older lenses.

Can anybody shed some light on this issue?

--Rik

[lauriek]

If you're talking about what I'd call 'aperture priority' - ie you set the aperture you want, the camera meters and works out the shutter speed - then yep I'd be annoyed if they phased this out (although I am an Olympus shooter). When outside shooting bugs I'm either using full manual or aperture priority depending on how variable the light is.

[waltknapp]

Yes I mean aperture priority, where you set the aperture (if the equipment has the ability to set that) and the camera metering reads the light coming in and sets the shutter speed. On Sony/Minolta cameras this is marked as A on the dial.

Note there is also the alternative in flash control where with TTL metering the flash duration is automatically controlled. And of course the automatic system in A mode can deal with mixed ambient light and flash.

BTW, I shoot with Sony a700s, the last DSLR model that they produced which had this ability regardless of what you mount on the camera. With Sony after that there is no way to turn off the lens detect and it does not matter if you have the camera set on any of the auto exposure setting modes, P, S, A (and it's Auto) the camera switches you to manual mode. Obviously it makes no sense to have the camera in a mode that sets the aperture to set exposure if the camera can't set the aperture on what you have attached, so the only logical mode is the A mode.

With the a700 in A mode I can attach a pinhole, telescope, microscope or any lens and it sets the shutter speed correctly. I've a considerable set of bellows macro gear as well as just "regular" manual lenses that this change will effect. I also do photomicrography, occasionally shoot with telescopes and even have a few pinholes around. And I do a lot of macro in the field, only rarely inside.

I was thinking I could move to Canon or Nikon, but it looks like that's not going to help.

Walt

[DaveW]

It often depends whether you buy a consumer, prosumer or professional camera. The lowest specification cameras usually need the latest automatic lenses to work their automation, whereas the more upmarket cameras can often be configured to use the older type lenses and meter with them since most professionals and advanced amateurs have a lot of older lenses. I have not heard of Nikon dropping Aperture or Shutter Priority etc?

Don't know whether the A700 was the last you were able to use with Aperture Priority since I think you say you meant being able to turn off lens detect? Afraid being a Nikon user I don't know much about Sony, but I have just browsed the Web for the Sony A900 and found it has these modes:-

• Auto
• Programmed AE (with shift)
• Aperture priority AE
• Shutter priority AE
• Manual
• MR (memory recall) / Custom

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/page2.asp

Here is their complete 37 page review on the A900:-

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydslra900/

DaveW

[waltknapp]

The Sony a850 and a900 both are crippled in A mode to run only with chipped lenses in that mode. Yes there is still A mode with that limitation. The Sony a700 (which pretty much copied and updated the Minolta 7D) was the last to be able to set exposure without a chipped lens. And it went out of production last summer, and is virtually out of stock now. No knowing on it's replacement which has just been shown in PMA as a "concept camera/mockup". But I'd be really surprised to see it back in that which is being promoted as a video camera.

Yes you implement it by a menu item to turn off the lens check in the a700 and a100 and no other. Same way the Minolta 7D did it. I'm quite familiar with the a900 I considered getting it when it came out, but choose the a700 because of the a900's crippled A mode. And because APS suits my photography better. Other than that problem and sensor size the cameras are very similar. You are correct about the mode settings, on both cameras, but it's what you get in those modes.

Yes it's more likely to have things like this missing in the lower levels, but with Sony it's all levels from top to bottom with their entire DSLR line.

As I understand at least some of the Nikon cameras are missing this ability too.

From what I was told about Canon the functionality will be removed in all future cameras from top to bottom of the line. It was a Pro who has connections to Canon who told me.

BTW the same Pro insisted that all macro was done with manual exposure and nobody used the auto exposure modes. I don't think he does any macro, however.

Walt

[DaveW]

I think he got it mixed up and meant most high magnification macro was done with manual focusing, not manual exposure.

I always use Shutter Priority when I don't want the shutter speed to drop too low if hand holding, or Aperture Priority on a tripod when shutter speed is usually not so important and aperture can be given priority. This even though I came from a completely manual film camera where I set everything before I moved to digital.

I have always found it is either the shutter speed or aperture that is most important in normal situations, so as the most important one sets the other you might as well let the automation set the least important for you, obviously keeping an eye on the viewfinder readout in case you need to change the ISO to get a better combination

DaveW

[Charles Krebs]

It might frustrate a few people putting older Zeiss Contax/Yashica mount lenses on their Canon bodies (as well as some Nikon and Olympus lenses) but these guys are die-hards and it probably wouldn't phase them.

Anythings possible, but I would be a little surprised to see Canon purposely limiting their cameras in this way.

[waltknapp]

I don't think he got it mixed up with focus.

He's one that's very insistant that photography is done with manual settings for exposure. But shoots AF. He was very clear in what he was saying. As I said, he's not a macro shooter except maybe some product photography.

I do most of my high magnification macro with flash, and depend on the TTL automatic exposure system to take care of exposure. I'm generally too busy tracking the moving subject, focus, and laying in the DOF where I want it to get involved in fiddling with exposure. And the Minolta and Sony DSLRs (a700 anyway) with the Minolta 1200 macro ringflash do a excellent job of getting the exposure right.

I'm going to really hate it if auto exposure goes away for high magnification macro. I certainly don't see much chance of high magnification macro lenses being produced by Sony that are chipped. Canon folks have it nice with the MPE 65, wish I could convert and use that lens. I shoot greater than 1:1 mostly with Minolta, Canon, Olympus and Zeiss Luminar RMS mount lenses.

I'm so used to setting in A mode it does not matter if my target is a certain aperture or a certain shutter speed I can generally get there in A mode and rarely use S mode. P and Auto I never use.

I went straight from the Minolta MF cameras to Minolta DSLR fifteen years ago. I've shot very little film since.

Walt

[waltknapp]

It's one thing to set exposure manually on a lens that the markings on the aperture ring are the actual effective aperture. I've no problem with that and I do still have a good handheld exposure meter if I need it. But quite a different thing if the lens is on a bellows and every change in bellows extension changes the effective aperture. I've been doing macro long enough to have done purely manual settings on macro, I was really happy when TTL exposure metering came in, and even happier when that was automated to set the exposure in A mode without any fiddling around about what the effective aperture was. That really opened up macro for folks.

Walt