M9 Causes DSLRs To Be Dumped

Harold Gough · Post by **Harold Gough** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:15 am

Leica claim that many users of top-end DSLRs are replacing them with the M9 rangefinder because of its relative compactness, most sales being for the camera body only:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090909leicam9.asp

It's not so easy for macro enthusiasts to be so fickle. However, if you don't have a top-end DSLR...

Harold

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:44 pm

"A moiré filter has not been integrated, allowing full exploitation of the superb resolution of Leica M lenses. Any moiré patterns occurring are eliminated in the camera’s signal processing software. The optimised signal–noise ratio reduces the need for digital post-processing, and results in high-contrast, high-resolution exposures with natural colour rendition from corner to corner."

Does this mean less need for sharpening a digital image in future?

DaveW

OzRay · Post by **OzRay** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:34 pm

Personally, I think Leica is trying to build up hype to sell more bodies, other than to the Leica faithful. Examples such as this, to make the Leica sound unique, are really taking things a bit far:

The LEICA M9 offers a special function for manual sensor cleaning: selecting the appropriate item from the menu and pressing the shutter release locks the shutter open to allow access to the sensor for cleaning purposes.

The sensor doesn't have an AA filter, so images will be inherently sharper staright out of the camera.

That said, a Leica won't 'make' you a better photographer, but it may make you 'feel' like one.

Cheers

Ray

rjlittlefield · Post by **rjlittlefield** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:21 pm

It's an interesting niche that Leica is targeting. As of today, Amazon is showing the M9 as $6,995.00, reduced from a list price of $7,750. There's a limited choice of lenses, and no way to fit odd ones because it's a rangefinder with no way to see what image the lens is actually delivering. Omitting the AA filter means that images will be sharper out of the camera, but more vulnerable to moire effects. Despite Leica's posturing about their electronics, it's not really possible to get rid of moire once the image has gotten to the Bayer filter. If it were, manufacturers would have been omitting AA filters since the beginning, and putting the anti-moire algorithms in their raw converters.

I suspect this snippet in the review (probably provided by Leica) offers a lot of insight:

The Leica viewfinder / rangefinder system sets the LEICA M9 apart from SLR and compact digital cameras and makes it particularly suitable for reportage, ‘available light’ and discreet portraiture. Photographers become part of the action and frame their subject in the viewfinder, while still being able to see the full scene outside the viewfinder frame. The decisive moment can be anticipated and captured at precisely the right instant, resulting in particularly authentic images.

In other words, they're selling the sharpest possible image in a small package that excels for handheld shooting by people with deep pockets.

I don't see anything in here that portends big improvements for macro work. Now a really good non-Bayer sensor, that would be a different headline.

--Rik

Harold Gough · Post by **Harold Gough** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:43 am

rjlittlefield wrote: it's a rangefinder with no way to see what image the lens is actually delivering.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, depending on the focusing confirmation mechanism.

I have a Hasselblad X-Pan. The original"kit" included a 45mm lens. I also have the 90mm.

Just before manufacture ceased, they issued a 30mm lens. This came in a "kit" with a dedicated viewfinder which attaches to sit over the camera's integral one.

I recently acquired enough cash to purchase the 30mm. While it was on its way to me I assumed that, for conventional use, I would have to frame though the dedicated viewfinder but focus by distances on the focusing ring, perhaps using hyperfocal distances (somewhat academic with that focal length).

When I first attached the 30mm I was amazed to see that the camera's rangefinder focusing, via the intergral viewfinder, was fully functional. It seems that one of the two tiny images, which must merge into one to confirm accurate focus, of the central portion of the subject is in the optical viewfinder, the other coming through the lens, unaffected by the preset aperture.

I am, very slowly, looking at the possibilities of shooting close-ups, and perhaps macro, to X-Pan format. This would be done by attaching supplementary lenses to (probably) the 90mm.

Other than for moderate close-ups, I would need a laterally-displaced target (subject substitute). It would never be a matter of making two identical images merge into one but the image from the lens would have to line up with a cross, or suchlike, positoned centrally on the subject substitute.

Harold

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:44 am

"The LEICA M9 offers a special function for manual sensor cleaning: selecting the appropriate item from the menu and pressing the shutter release locks the shutter open to allow access to the sensor for cleaning purposes. "

Didn't all the DSLR's have to do this before vibrating auto dust removal mechanisms were introduced? They still do since these methods do not remove all sticky dust so manual cleaning is still occasionally necessary, even if the camera is returned to the maker to do it for you.

My Nikon D200 uses this method since it predates "shaking sensors", so all Leica is saying is our cameras don't have auto dust removal mechanisms and to use the old method below, which you will have to do with all DSLR's in time, shaking sensor or not:-

http://photo.net/equipment/dslr-sensor-cleaning/

How accurate are rangefinders shooting very close up Harold? Autofocus through the lens cannot even be relied on very close. The human eyeball on the focusing screen is still the best focusing aid, but even that relies on the adjustable reflex mirror being properly set by the manufacturer so the length of both light path to the focusing screen and to the sensor are identical.

Most focusing aids rely on a significant depth of field being available to cover up their inaccuracies, but depths of field measured in just a few millimeters cannot cover their shortcomings.

DaveW

P_T · Post by **P_T** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:26 am

I call BS on that claim.

Besides, isn't a rangefinder useless for macro and other close up photography due to the parallax error?

rovebeetle · Post by **rovebeetle** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:10 am

rjlittlefield wrote:Amazon is showing the M9 as $6,995.00, reduced from a list price of $7,750.

LOL - and so many people were complaing about the price tag of the D3X ...

g4lab · Post by **g4lab** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:22 pm

People did lots of macro and copy work with Leica Rangefinders using one of these :
Called a Reprovit and also using the VisoFlex either of which essentially converted the Leica to an SLR.

DaveW · Post by **DaveW** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:49 pm

Yes my night school photography teacher had the Visoflex for his Leica, plus the gizmo to put it on a microscope. It was a most unwieldy beast with the Visoflex fitted which was heavier than the camera, certainly not a substitute for a proper SLR:-

http://www.ritzcam.com/catalog/images/Visoflex_2.jpg

http://static.photo.net/attachments/bbo ... 922784.jpg

DaveW

Harold Gough · Post by **Harold Gough** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:44 am

Chance To Win A Unique Leica M9 (UK and Republic of Ireland residents only):

This is a free, promotional/celebrational. There is an engraved Leica M9 and 35mm f2 lens (total value £6,765) as a prize in a draw.

This is a one-off camera to celebrate the 150th aniversary of Amateur Photographer magazine

You just have to collect 8 weekly tokens, the first of which is in the 10 October issue (page 42). (I have my subscriber copy).

Harold