Do you have some helicoid you can suggest? Anyway my movements with actus are not big, shouldn't be a problem.Lou Jost wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:44 pmThat's a good point. You could probably get a helicoid between your camera body and the Actus to make up the distance, but that might restrict movements.Allthink wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:32 pmFor Mamiya rz 140, I got not good news today, that in order to get 1:1, I have to be in 2*focal length distance, which is 240mm, and In my actus I think I don't have that distance with regular rail, and I don't want (at least for now) to buy long rail just for that. That's why I considered Pentax 645 120mm macro/Pentax 67 100 macro, as they have already focus ring on them.
Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Moderators: Chris S., Pau, Beatsy, rjlittlefield, ChrisR
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Thanks for your suggestions.CrispyBee wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:43 pmWhile they are sometimes called "macro" and are made in a so-called "makro-iris", enlarger lenses like the Componons are not optimised macro lenses but (depending on the lens) very good at lower magnifications/closeups and product photography. They were made for projections at rather high magnifications with optimum ranges from 4-20x (more or less). Longer focal lengths are for larger negatives at lower magnifications, shorter focal lengths for smaller negatives at higher magnifications (generally speaking).Allthink wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:09 pm
Thanks for your opinion
Is Schneider Apo Digitar 90mm F4.5 you mentioned is a macro lens?
As I understood, the enlarger lenses are made to be best at the distance they were designed for, so it includes 1:1, maybe I'm wrong.
SK apo-Componon HM seems like a good option, so it can be good for closeup product photography close distances(but non 1:1), is that what you mean?
I see Schneider Kreuznach APO DIGITAR 5.6/120 APO LENS on Compur 1 Shutter, but not shure if it's macro.
Varon seems strange lens to me, is it f8 max aperture? First time hearing about that model but anyway out of my budget.
What's in your opinion is the best out there (for 1:1 and for closeup shooting products) without going to astronomic 5k+ ranges, staying under 1-1.5k$?
120mm Schneider Kreuznach Makro-Symmar HM sells for 1k and seems like a best of the bunch, is it? Can it be used with same confidence and IQ for 1:1 jewelry and bigger subjects? I prefer, if possible, to pick on that can do both range great, otherwise I will have to pick two.
However not all APO-Componons are that good, the 90mm APO Componon HM is generally considered to be one of the best Componons for photography - it can also be found as the APO Digitar 90mm, it's pretty much the same lens.
Likewise the APO Digitar 120mm with the "M-26°" marking is the same lens as the Makro Symmar 120mm HM, they're optimised for 1x and very good between 1:4 and 4:1.
There are some really good lenses around, the Schneider Makro Symmars / APO Digitar "M" are amongst them and they're not too rare.
If you're lucky and patient you could look for a Mejiro Genossen FL 0530 110mm 4.0, that's an excellent lens from 0.25x - 4x on the GFX sensor and used to be very affordable - but it's very rare now. The Macro-Varon 85mm 4.5 is great from 0.5x - 2x, maybe even beyond that (I've never had the chance to try it out).
Both of them are float-element lenses, so you have to set the lens to the current magnification in order to get the best performance.
Or you could get a bayonet mount lens which would mean you can't use any movement but there are a lot more of them around and they're much more affordable (and overall easier to use).
I got SK apo digitar 90 with my actus, seems like it's a non macro version.
The 90mm hm seems like an interestig option. The Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 is twice $ as much than the componon 90 hm. But componon is enlarger, and Macro symmar is general regular macro lens, right?
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
There are 65mm diameter helicoids available on eBay and the ones I have bought are very well made, but it takes a lot of searching to find step-up and step-down rings to connect them. They do exist! Threaded macro reversing rings are available for most cameras and can provide the connection between the helicoid and the back of the camera. It can be challenging to mate the bellows to the helicoid. Nikon makes a ring that does the job, but I do not know about other brands.Allthink wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:15 pmDo you have some helicoid you can suggest? Anyway my movements with actus are not big, shouldn't be a problem.Lou Jost wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:44 pmThat's a good point. You could probably get a helicoid between your camera body and the Actus to make up the distance, but that might restrict movements.Allthink wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:32 pmFor Mamiya rz 140, I got not good news today, that in order to get 1:1, I have to be in 2*focal length distance, which is 240mm, and In my actus I think I don't have that distance with regular rail, and I don't want (at least for now) to buy long rail just for that. That's why I considered Pentax 645 120mm macro/Pentax 67 100 macro, as they have already focus ring on them.
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
500$ is reasonable if it's in great condition, the thread depends on whether it's mounted on/in a shutter or in an enlarger barrel.Allthink wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:32 pmColleagues, one clarification and question
Clarification: Yes, I do have auto focus bracketing with my 150mm sigma and Nikon and use it sometimes, but it's FF, can't get movements. For cambo actus, I have to buy everything from scratch. And If I later buy GFX/DB, of course what movements i can get with my FF lenses?, none.
Questions:
What is the mount thread of 90mm APO Componon HM? Is it leica thread? If yes, is 500$ reasonable?
Is see that Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 is copal 0 and is compatible for copal 0 lens board I can buy (I see it's 1000$ lens)
For Mamiya rz 140, I got not good news today, that in order to get 1:1, I have to be in 2*focal length distance, which is 240mm, and In my actus I think I don't have that distance with regular rail, and I don't want (at least for now) to buy long rail just for that. That's why I considered Pentax 645 120mm macro/Pentax 67 100 macro, as they have already focus ring on them.
https://deltalenses.com/product/schneid ... hm-90-4-5/
The Pentax 645 120mm is a bayonet mount float element lens so you have to keep the flange focal distance at the exact same position at all times.
That means you'll have to maintain a distance of 70.87mm between the lens bayonet flange and the sensor surface at every magnification setting and only use the lens focus ring to adjust the focus/magnification, otherwise the lens is't going to perform well. Whether that leaves enough space for movements is questionable as the SonyE mount already comes with a flange focal distance of 18mm, the adapter will add a few mm, the bellows and both mounting points will add another few mm..
That's why it's important to know the minimum extension and maximum extension you system is capable of.
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
If you already have the Apo Digitar 90mm then there's no need to look for a Componon 90mm HM. That's the exact same lens only with a different name.Allthink wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:18 pm
I got SK apo digitar 90 with my actus, seems like it's a non macro version.
The 90mm hm seems like an interestig option. The Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 is twice $ as much than the componon 90 hm. But componon is enlarger, and Macro symmar is general regular macro lens, right?
You're right, the Componons are enlarger lenses that can be used for regular photography or for high-magnification (but not high resolution) macros.
The Makro-Symmars (especially the HM versions) are dedicated closeup- and macro lenses.
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
thanks youCrispyBee wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:35 pmIf you already have the Apo Digitar 90mm then there's no need to look for a Componon 90mm HM. That's the exact same lens only with a different name.Allthink wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:18 pm
I got SK apo digitar 90 with my actus, seems like it's a non macro version.
The 90mm hm seems like an interestig option. The Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 is twice $ as much than the componon 90 hm. But componon is enlarger, and Macro symmar is general regular macro lens, right?
You're right, the Componons are enlarger lenses that can be used for regular photography or for high-magnification (but not high resolution) macros.
The Makro-Symmars (especially the HM versions) are dedicated closeup- and macro lenses.
Strange, the 90mm hm i saw on web seems much bigger in diameter than my digitar 90mm lens, which is much compact and small. Are they really same lens, even the different size?
I checked again, mine is SK 90 apo digitar N-53 (deg), so it's not a macro.
Hence, I assume the 90mm HM can complement the macro range, right? Or it's better to "hunt" for 120mm macro?
The thing is that i measured now, I have around 120-130mm from lens plate to the sensor, so it's not possible to attach 90mm lens, I assume, as it needs 2*focal range(to get 1:1), which is 90*2=180mm and my standard rail is ~130mm, so i'm not sure if this raill will work with macro lens that doesn't have focus ring on it. My current standard rail is 155mm.
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
I already mentioned this but: Neither of the 90mm is a macro lens. But it's really the same lens; the HM may look bigger because it's often mounted in an enlarger barrel and that barrel is then mounted in a shutter (most of the time) - but in reality they're really compact lenses and surprisingly small. Keep in mind that it's still "only" a 90mm f4.5 and there's no helicoid or anything else built-in so it wouldn't have to be big to begin with.Allthink wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:51 pmthanks youCrispyBee wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:35 pmIf you already have the Apo Digitar 90mm then there's no need to look for a Componon 90mm HM. That's the exact same lens only with a different name.Allthink wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:18 pm
I got SK apo digitar 90 with my actus, seems like it's a non macro version.
The 90mm hm seems like an interestig option. The Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 is twice $ as much than the componon 90 hm. But componon is enlarger, and Macro symmar is general regular macro lens, right?
You're right, the Componons are enlarger lenses that can be used for regular photography or for high-magnification (but not high resolution) macros.
The Makro-Symmars (especially the HM versions) are dedicated closeup- and macro lenses.
Strange, the 90mm hm i saw on web seems much bigger in diameter than my digitar 90mm lens, which is much compact and small. Are they really same lens, even the different size?
I checked again, mine is SK 90 apo digitar N-53 (deg), so it's not a macro.
That's what I meant by first having to measure your current setup because that will rule out a lof of your options.Allthink wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:51 pmThe thing is that i measured now, I have around 120-130mm from lens plate to the sensor, so it's not possible to attach 90mm lens, I assume, as it needs 2*focal range(to get 1:1), which is 90*2=180mm and my standard rail is ~130mm, so i'm not sure if this raill will work with macro lens that doesn't have focus ring on it. My current standard rail is 155mm.
with a max. extension/distance of 120-130mm between the lens pate and the sensor you can use the 90mm for closeups and product shots up to 0.45x (approx) and that should work well.
You're right, for higher magnifications you have to go with a shorter focal length (unless you want to use extensions) so in order to get to 1x your focal length probably should be around 60-65mm more or less).
While there are some really good macro lenses in that focal lenght range, at the top of my head I don't know any such modern macro lenses that have a large enough image circle for movements and with are made to be used on tech cameras.
Maybe something rare and exotic like a Voigtlaender Repro-Skopar 60mm could work or a Leitz Milnar 65mm (reversed)?
If your minumum extension allows for the use of adapted bayonet-mount lenses at their correct flange focal distance AND you still have room for bellows movement without increasing that distance you can also look into that as a potential solution. but using them with movements while retaining the flange focal distance could be a bit of an issue.
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
It was mentioned before that if the Apo digitar 90mm is with "M" engraving then, it is a macro. Maybe i don't get it till yet.CrispyBee wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:22 amI already mentioned this but: Neither of the 90mm is a macro lens. But it's really the same lens; the HM may look bigger because it's often mounted in an enlarger barrel and that barrel is then mounted in a shutter (most of the time) - but in reality they're really compact lenses and surprisingly small. Keep in mind that it's still "only" a 90mm f4.5 and there's no helicoid or anything else built-in so it wouldn't have to be big to begin with.Allthink wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:51 pmthanks youCrispyBee wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 2:35 pm
If you already have the Apo Digitar 90mm then there's no need to look for a Componon 90mm HM. That's the exact same lens only with a different name.
You're right, the Componons are enlarger lenses that can be used for regular photography or for high-magnification (but not high resolution) macros.
The Makro-Symmars (especially the HM versions) are dedicated closeup- and macro lenses.
Strange, the 90mm hm i saw on web seems much bigger in diameter than my digitar 90mm lens, which is much compact and small. Are they really same lens, even the different size?
I checked again, mine is SK 90 apo digitar N-53 (deg), so it's not a macro.
That's what I meant by first having to measure your current setup because that will rule out a lof of your options.Allthink wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 11:51 pmThe thing is that i measured now, I have around 120-130mm from lens plate to the sensor, so it's not possible to attach 90mm lens, I assume, as it needs 2*focal range(to get 1:1), which is 90*2=180mm and my standard rail is ~130mm, so i'm not sure if this raill will work with macro lens that doesn't have focus ring on it. My current standard rail is 155mm.
with a max. extension/distance of 120-130mm between the lens pate and the sensor you can use the 90mm for closeups and product shots up to 0.45x (approx) and that should work well.
You're right, for higher magnifications you have to go with a shorter focal length (unless you want to use extensions) so in order to get to 1x your focal length probably should be around 60-65mm more or less).
While there are some really good macro lenses in that focal lenght range, at the top of my head I don't know any such modern macro lenses that have a large enough image circle for movements and with are made to be used on tech cameras.
Maybe something rare and exotic like a Voigtlaender Repro-Skopar 60mm could work or a Leitz Milnar 65mm (reversed)?
If your minumum extension allows for the use of adapted bayonet-mount lenses at their correct flange focal distance AND you still have room for bellows movement without increasing that distance you can also look into that as a potential solution. but using them with movements while retaining the flange focal distance could be a bit of an issue.
As I understand there was also Apo digitar 90mm M, for macro, mine is "N", so it was designed for regular use, i assume. Won't the HM 90mm enlarging lens will give me more magnification for jewelry like ring for example?
What do you think -which option is better for movements, just buying adapter for P645 with Pentax 645 120mm lens or using copal 0 lens board and adapting non helical lens without focus ring? (like Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 or this 90mm hm or apo componon 90/4.5 iris /Fujinon EX or Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-N 80mm f4 enlarging lens?)
Last edited by Allthink on Wed Sep 18, 2024 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Not to my knowledge, the only APO Digitar macro lenses are the 80mm and 120mm 5.6 which have the "M" designation.Allthink wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:24 amAs I understand there was also Apo digitar 90mm M, for macro, mine is N, so it was designed for regular use, i assume. Won't the HM 90mm enlarging lens will give me more magnification for jewelry like ring?
What do you think -which option is better for movements, just buying adapter for P645 with Pentax 645 120mm lens or using copal 0 lens board and adapting non helical lens without focus ring? (like Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 or this 90mm hm or apo componon 90/4.5 iris /Fujinon EX or Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-N 80mm f4 enlarging lens?)
(There was also a 120mm 5.6 non-M, which was for regular distances which is why the "M" is an important distinction.)
Have you looked at the extension the 80mm requires in order to get to 1x?
Have you measured the minimum extension you get with your system and whether that would allow for a 645 adapter with movements?
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Mine for sure is 90mm apo digitar N, non macro.CrispyBee wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:50 amNot to my knowledge, the only APO Digitar macro lenses are the 80mm and 120mm 5.6 which have the "M" designation.Allthink wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:24 amAs I understand there was also Apo digitar 90mm M, for macro, mine is N, so it was designed for regular use, i assume. Won't the HM 90mm enlarging lens will give me more magnification for jewelry like ring?
What do you think -which option is better for movements, just buying adapter for P645 with Pentax 645 120mm lens or using copal 0 lens board and adapting non helical lens without focus ring? (like Schneider Kreuznach MACRO Symmar HM 5.6/80 or this 90mm hm or apo componon 90/4.5 iris /Fujinon EX or Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-N 80mm f4 enlarging lens?)
(There was also a 120mm 5.6 non-M, which was for regular distances which is why the "M" is an important distinction.)
Have you looked at the extension the 80mm requires in order to get to 1x?
Have you measured the minimum extension you get with your system and whether that would allow for a 645 adapter with movements?
For 80mm, I will need 2*80=160mm length, mine is only ~13mm, overall length of rail 155mm, so even 80 will not be enough for 1:1.
With 645 adapter , what do you mean, if i will use pentax 645 120mm? Meanimum extension is close to 0 mm if i move back standard to front standard (lens plate to mount plate)
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Sony has 18 mm f.f. distance as i know, so I assume that's the distance between the lens mount and sensor.
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Hey colleagues
I'm still not decided.
Anyone can look at the list of macro lenses i posted initially as a thread opener?
Maybe someone tried/compared Pentax 645 120mm vs Mamiya 645 120mm macro lenses?
How they compare to enlarging lenses like SK APO-Componon HM 90mm 4.5/Fujinon EX 75mm/ NIKON 80MM 5.6 EL and Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-N 80mm f4?
Looking for good lens for macro and 1:1, for jewelry and bigger objects.
I'm still not decided.
Anyone can look at the list of macro lenses i posted initially as a thread opener?
Maybe someone tried/compared Pentax 645 120mm vs Mamiya 645 120mm macro lenses?
How they compare to enlarging lenses like SK APO-Componon HM 90mm 4.5/Fujinon EX 75mm/ NIKON 80MM 5.6 EL and Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-N 80mm f4?
Looking for good lens for macro and 1:1, for jewelry and bigger objects.
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
- enricosavazzi
- Posts: 1545
- Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:41 pm
- Location: Västerås, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
I don't think the El Nikkor 80 mm f/5.6 was in the original list. It is not a bad lens, but not one of the best, either. It is a rather dated 6 elements in 4 groups design like most EL Nikkors, and not optimized for 1:1. I found a 2x-15x range mentioned for this lens, when used to project negatives onto photo paper (so 1/2 to 1/15 when reversed for imaging). For quality imaging on a not-too-large sensor, this range is probably over-optimistic, and more like 1/4-1/8. This lens has a following in UV imaging because of its relatively good NUV transmission and relatively low aberrations in the NUV (compared to other lenses not specifically designed for UV imaging).
--ES
Re: Suggested Macro lenses for tabletop
Hello colleagues again
I have some additional lenses I want to mention, as I still didn't decide the direction to go with.
my current setup also changed, now I have 300mm bellows, so more option for closeups/longer lenses, still with sony camera.
1. If i go with Pentax 645 120mm maco at set it to it's focal f.dist. , it's ~70mm, then i will be able to focus 1:1, and if i move the front standard further, I will be able to get even closer to 2:1, right?
Maybe i will have a job to photograph eye lens which is 6mm in diameter.
2. I have additional macro lenses to mention, what's your opinion on them (I remind that I do have apo-digitar 90mm 4.5 "N"- non macro version)
Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital Macro 5,6/120 ~1000$
Fujifilm Fujinon A 180/9 - isn't it too dark for using with strobes for macro? because if i close it down to f16, it will need too much flash power
Schneider Makro-Symmar HM 180mm - and if i have to go to ~342mm extention(2*180-18mm) in order to get 1:1?
Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Macro-Sironar-N MC BT Copal 3
Schneider apo digitar 120mm macro lens (~800-1000$)
Pentax 120 (~350$) and Mamiya 140 (~200$) macros are still an option for consideration
All of them can be mounted on my tech. camera lens plates
How these lenses perform?
3. I wonder if I will see any difference between them IQ wise up to 60mp on FF?
4. If i buy just regular non-macro dedicated lens like SK/Rodenstock apo 150mm, will it perform good for 1:1, if i extended to 300mm?
CM Fujinon W 180mm f5.6
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar MC 180mm f/5.6
Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-N 180mm F5.6
If you have any other lens on your mind that perform well on digital with movements(I need them), write the model please.
The price diff. between 300$ and 1000$ won't be 3x performance, so it's also a consideration
Currently i don't have any lens longer than my apo-digitar 90mm, so anyway I want to have something in telefoto range.
5. It's not macro related question, but i do photograph paintings for reproductions and canvas macro "clarity"/details are importrant. Currently I use my Nikkors pc-e 45 and 85mm for it, it's OK. Buy If I buy Rodagon-s 60mm HR, will it be much better?
I have some additional lenses I want to mention, as I still didn't decide the direction to go with.
my current setup also changed, now I have 300mm bellows, so more option for closeups/longer lenses, still with sony camera.
1. If i go with Pentax 645 120mm maco at set it to it's focal f.dist. , it's ~70mm, then i will be able to focus 1:1, and if i move the front standard further, I will be able to get even closer to 2:1, right?
Maybe i will have a job to photograph eye lens which is 6mm in diameter.
2. I have additional macro lenses to mention, what's your opinion on them (I remind that I do have apo-digitar 90mm 4.5 "N"- non macro version)
Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital Macro 5,6/120 ~1000$
Fujifilm Fujinon A 180/9 - isn't it too dark for using with strobes for macro? because if i close it down to f16, it will need too much flash power
Schneider Makro-Symmar HM 180mm - and if i have to go to ~342mm extention(2*180-18mm) in order to get 1:1?
Rodenstock 210mm f/5.6 Macro-Sironar-N MC BT Copal 3
Schneider apo digitar 120mm macro lens (~800-1000$)
Pentax 120 (~350$) and Mamiya 140 (~200$) macros are still an option for consideration
All of them can be mounted on my tech. camera lens plates
How these lenses perform?
3. I wonder if I will see any difference between them IQ wise up to 60mp on FF?
4. If i buy just regular non-macro dedicated lens like SK/Rodenstock apo 150mm, will it perform good for 1:1, if i extended to 300mm?
CM Fujinon W 180mm f5.6
Schneider Kreuznach Apo Symmar MC 180mm f/5.6
Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-N 180mm F5.6
If you have any other lens on your mind that perform well on digital with movements(I need them), write the model please.
The price diff. between 300$ and 1000$ won't be 3x performance, so it's also a consideration
Currently i don't have any lens longer than my apo-digitar 90mm, so anyway I want to have something in telefoto range.
5. It's not macro related question, but i do photograph paintings for reproductions and canvas macro "clarity"/details are importrant. Currently I use my Nikkors pc-e 45 and 85mm for it, it's OK. Buy If I buy Rodagon-s 60mm HR, will it be much better?
Products and portrait photography www.photostudio.co.il
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com
Architecture and interior design photography www.maximdupliy.com