Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

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mjkzz
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Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

Have not done any stacking for almost 6 months, I was surprised hearing the all the fans in my computer going full speed when stacking 121 61MP images using Zerene, checking task manager, looks like both CPUs are being used, actually all 24 cores or 48 hyperthreads are used for that matter. Memory usage is about 24GB (out of 128GB).

Hmmm, is this a new change? I remember Zerene was kind of contained to ONE CPU and only uses less than 8GB of memory. Maybe that is when I was stacking 24MP images. But anyways, this is great to be able to fully utilize all resources and in case people not aware of it, this post can serve as reminder. If this is not a new feature, well . . .
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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by rjlittlefield »

This is not a new feature but it may be new behavior for you. Zerene Stacker has always attempted to use all available cores. It is more successful at this effort if has enough memory and the Pro-only option is selected to overlap I/O with computation. Those aspects will be true by default on a modern machine with a Prosumer Edition or Professional Edition license key. With less memory, or a Personal or Student Edition license, I/O will not be overlapped with computation and then the program will frequently be reduced to one core while reading/writing files. There are other known factors in play also, for example larger images are generally better at using all cores than smaller images are.

There are also some unknown factors apparently having to do with computer configuration. For example on my new Lenovo Yoga 9i, ZS runs quickly but shows low cpu utilization even with large stacks. I do not know in that case whether the actual CPU utilization is low, or Windows 11 Task Manager is showing me a misleading view. That processor has both slow and fast cores, which should not affect the actual utilization, but may somehow play into the reporting.

You mention that all fans are going full speed when stacking. That is typical behavior when the cooling system is struggling to keep up with the CPU. Zerene Stacker stresses the CPU about as hard as anything except thermal test programs. This can lead to problems on computers whose cooling systems have been degraded by clogged ducts, dirty heat sinks, and the like. It sounds like your current machine is still able to manage the heat OK, but you might want to check with monitoring software just to be sure.

--Rik

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:36 am
This is not a new feature but it may be new behavior for you. Zerene Stacker has always attempted to use all available cores. It is more successful at this effort if has enough memory and the Pro-only option is selected to overlap I/O with computation. Those aspects will be true by default on a modern machine with a Prosumer Edition or Professional Edition license key. With less memory, or a Personal or Student Edition license, I/O will not be overlapped with computation and then the program will frequently be reduced to one core while reading/writing files. There are other known factors in play also, for example larger images are generally better at using all cores than smaller images are.

There are also some unknown factors apparently having to do with computer configuration. For example on my new Lenovo Yoga 9i, ZS runs quickly but shows low cpu utilization even with large stacks. I do not know in that case whether the actual CPU utilization is low, or Windows 11 Task Manager is showing me a misleading view. That processor has both slow and fast cores, which should not affect the actual utilization, but may somehow play into the reporting.

You mention that all fans are going full speed when stacking. That is typical behavior when the cooling system is struggling to keep up with the CPU. Zerene Stacker stresses the CPU about as hard as anything except thermal test programs. This can lead to problems on computers whose cooling systems have been degraded by clogged ducts, dirty heat sinks, and the like. It sounds like your current machine is still able to manage the heat OK, but you might want to check with monitoring software just to be sure.

--Rik
Thanks Rik, so I guess I was putting the prosumer version on my Dell R720 before and using the 2nd license, a pro version, on my i3 desktop, when I was doing experiments, darn it!!! Now, I reconfig'ed the R720 for some other computing tasks and the i3 was cleaned to act as front to monitor the progress, so I had no machine with Zerene since last Feb. Had to do some stacking lately, so I installed Zerene again on my desktop, a 24 cores machine, and whenever it runs, all fans go full throttle, so I was wondering. I guess this time, I installed the pro version "by accident", now I need to rename those lic files to distinguish them (prosumer or pro)

Yes, the machine is fine, just that I was expecting a "contained" behaviour -- the prosumer version seems to be "contained" and uses much less resources, perfect for machines like laptop, etc. but the PRO version is really what people should use if they do stacking day and night. Put it, the pro version, on some old server with a lot of cores and memory, since ZS Pro can fully utilize all resources, at least CPUs, the more cores the better!

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

Now I know ZS Pro is NOT "contained", the ZS capability of batch process is another way to take advantage of "old servers" or "computing modules for super computer" on 2nd hand market, they are relatively cheap, put it in basement and remote in using a lesser machine, configure a ZS batch to run over night . . . (if) ZS can send an email or some other notification when it is done, then perfect for those who had a lot of stackings to do.

This is just an idea and since I am not doing stacking much anymore, maybe someone who does do a lot of stacking can give it try, good for the community. Just be aware that: those old servers are LOUD when fully utilized. My R720 is running some ray tracing in basement, I can hear it on 2nd floor.

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by rjlittlefield »

mjkzz wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:07 pm
the prosumer version seems to be "contained" and uses much less resources, perfect for machines like laptop, etc.
...
need to rename those lic files to distinguish them (prosumer or pro)
To be clear, there are no technical differences between Prosumer Edition and Professional Edition licenses. Whatever performance differences you saw were surely due to other factors.

The technical differences are for Prosumer/Professional versus Personal/Student/Trial. The latter three license types have I/O overlap turned off by default, and will allow it to be turned on only for a 30-day trial period.

--Rik

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:24 pm
mjkzz wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:07 pm
the prosumer version seems to be "contained" and uses much less resources, perfect for machines like laptop, etc.
...
need to rename those lic files to distinguish them (prosumer or pro)
To be clear, there are no technical differences between Prosumer Edition and Professional Edition licenses. Whatever performance differences you saw were surely due to other factors.

The technical differences are for Prosumer/Professional versus Personal/Student/Trial. The latter three license types have I/O overlap turned off by default, and will allow it to be turned on only for a 30-day trial period.

--Rik
OK, darn it, maybe I turned off I/O overlap on that copy as I was playing around or maybe the first copy I got was personal one, I do not remember. The 2nd copy is definitely a PRO version because I needed two copies -- one for casual use on my desktop machine and one for crunching some images in tens of thousands back then. I thought the difference was only in editing features, not in CPU utilization. Good to know, now I have renamed the lic files, in case my desktop crashes AGAIN -- it is definitely good idea to be able to fully utilize all CPUs.

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

I thought I got the prosumer version for the first copy, so I removed current Zerene on my desktop, will re-install it with the first copy lic file tomorrow and see if the I/O overlap will be disabled in 30 days or by default :-) If so, it means I got the personal one, if not, I got the prosumer one and disabled I/O overlap by accident. Just curious :-)

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by rjlittlefield »

In my records I find that you have two licenses: one Prosumer and one Professional. I do not find any Personal for you.

Regarding cpu utilization, there is another setting that has direct and obvious effect.

At Options > Preferences > Multiprocessing, one can select "Use specific number of cores / processors" and then specify a number.

Sometimes people do that in order to test the efficiency of multiprocessing, but forget to change the setting back to default when they are done.

The settings are sticky, so if they do not get reset then Zerene Stacker will continue to run with whatever configuration was last selected.

For other settings that can affect performance, though less directly, see the discussion that begins at viewtopic.php?p=141699#141699 and continues on to a second page.

--Rik

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:51 pm
In my records I find that you have two licenses: one Prosumer and one Professional. I do not find any Personal for you.

Regarding cpu utilization, there is another setting that has direct and obvious effect.

At Options > Preferences > Multiprocessing, one can select "Use specific number of cores / processors" and then specify a number.

Sometimes people do that in order to test the efficiency of multiprocessing, but forget to change the setting back to default when they are done.

The settings are sticky, so if they do not get reset then Zerene Stacker will continue to run with whatever configuration was last selected.

For other settings that can affect performance, though less directly, see the discussion that begins at viewtopic.php?p=141699#141699 and continues on to a second page.

--Rik
OK, thanks.

I remember I got the prosumer version for the first copy, but not sure. Tried to re-install on my desktop again, no luck, it seems it is using the old lic file and darn it, I could have found out the version by checking "Help->About". Maybe I will wait till my machine crashes AGAIN and get my backup back, that backup does not have ZS on it, so I can try it again. It looks like I can not "down" grade :D

Yes, the "sticky" part might explain things -- I used to have the first copy on my desktop, then I got the 2nd copy which I had to do something to make it use the new lic file. Since it is sticky, the new pro version might have the old settings.

One suggestion: maybe let user do upgrade as well as "downgrade" and use new default settings. See, in my case trying to downgrade, I can not. Fortunately, for now, I only need one license as I do not do stacking much anymore, the R720 in basement was cleaned for other tasks. But in the future IF I want to put another copy of ZS back on that machine, I have to install the prosumer version, as the pro one is on my desktop already, I can not downgrade it. The only way to install pro version on that machine is to get another copy of pro version AGAIN :D

Anyways, this is a welcome "change" (if so), I now can run full throttle, using resources on both CPUs on my desktop. I do not think it was like that before, though I did not run large stacks on my desktop before, so not sure. The bottom line is, this is good, maybe I do not have to run stacking on another machine, just run stuff on my desktop over night, that is another solution for the problem of "downgrade" :D.

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by rjlittlefield »

You can swap licenses by just using Options > Registration to install the license that you want to use.

If the application is running with default settings, then installing the license key will also change the defaults.

If the settings have been explicitly changed, then the changed settings will stick across license changes. In that case, to get back to using true defaults instead of sticky settings, do an Options > Preferences > Resets > "Master reset: to factory settings". That will clear out all the explicit settings, so your next launch will be just like your first-ever launch.

These techniques are how I check license behavior in my development environment. I just install a Personal Edition or Prosumer Edition license key, depending on which category I want to test. I do not bother to test Professional Edition routinely, because literally the only place in the code that cares about these license types is one method, which says that Pro-only features are allowed if the license type is Prosumer, Professional, or Instructional Lab.

So for you it won't matter. You can swap Prosumer and Professional all day long and nothing will change.

New users who are still in trial could benefit from one new feature: set the defaults as if Prosumer or Professional, rather than the usual trial defaults which are the same as Personal/Student.

As it is now, people who want to compare that aspect have to read one of the FAQs on my website:
Can I test Professional and Prosumer options in trial?
Yes, all of the Professional and Prosumer options are available during the free 30-day trial.

In trial, the program's default settings are the same as for Personal and Student Editions.

So, to see exactly how a Prosumer or Professional Edition license key would behave, you'll need to check-mark the following settings explicitly:
  • Options > Preferences > Image Saving > “Copy metadata from source images to saved output images”
  • Options > Preferences > Color Management > “Use input file profiles for ZS screen displays”
  • Options > Preferences > Multiprocessing > “Overlap I/O with computation if possible”
  • Options > Preferences > Caching & Undo > “Enable advanced undo”
--Rik

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

Thanks Rik, so, good thing that I can do that to save some money on buying another PRO license in case I need to set the R720 server up for stacking again :D

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Re: Is Zerene Now Using All CPUs?

Post by mjkzz »

Yep, switched to Prosumer Edition, all cores on both CPUs are being utilized, all fans are throttling . . . the PRO edition was installed fresh, ie, no ZS on the machine, now "downgrading" it to prosumer seems working fine, too. So it must be me changing some parameters when I installed on that R720 long ago, making it only use one CPU and utilization was about 30% to 40%. Or maybe I am now stacking 61MP images instead of 24MP ones . . .

Sony A7R5 can pixel shift 16 images to make one 240MP image, so lets see how that will go :D Thanks again.
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