Beginners Mk2 Questions

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

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UncleChip
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Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by UncleChip »

I have a Sony full frame and a voitglander 110mm APO 1:1 lens, it’s a very good lens, also have the voitglander 50mm APO,

I have a set of tubes (10/16mm) and a Marumi +3 diopter these combined give me about 2:1

Q, does adding tubes and a diopter affect image quality?
Q, is there a better way to achieve 2:1 for high image quality
Q, can I get to 3:1, with my lenses by adding stuff and keep very high IQ?

In a few months I will be getting the Mitutoyo 5x and then the 10X after that so I will be getting the Raynox 150, if that can be factored in,

Q, what steps in magnification do you have in your setup? 1x, 1x, 5x, etc

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

1. Generally yes.
2. Laowa 100m 2:1 macro lens, Laowa 25mm 2.5-5x ultra-macro
3. See above.

UncleChip
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by UncleChip »

Thanks,
I had looked at the Laowa 2.5-5x as it ticked all the boxes, I think I dismissed it because of the price, I compared the price to my Voitglander and the canon 2-5x,

Just binging on reviews now so thanks, I have just seen a tripod mount for it so that helps

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

UncleChip wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:43 pm
Thanks,
I had looked at the Laowa 2.5-5x as it ticked all the boxes, I think I dismissed it because of the price, I compared the price to my Voitglander and the canon 2-5x,

Just binging on reviews now so thanks, I have just seen a tripod mount for it so that helps
Excuse my ignorance, but why was it dismissed because of price, the lens is cheaper (more than 50%) than the Voigtlander and the Canon 1-5x, neither of which are better in terms of image quality (the opposite).
If I am reading this correctly, it seems like you dismissed it simply because it is cheap and cheap = bad? Please reconsider. Many of our trialled and tested lenses are very cheap, such as the Minolta 5400 scanner lens, which is better than most macro lenses even at an inflated $299 opposed to $100 originally.

I have made two reviews on the 2.5-5x.
https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... rm-review/
https://macrocosmosblog.wordpress.com/2 ... s-ver-1-0/
I plan to update both as work-life balance gets better and burn out diminishes.

bbobby
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by bbobby »

UncleChip wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:37 pm
I have a Sony full frame...
How many Megapixels? 24 MP even in best case scenario will resolve just over 80 lp/mm and many lenses will outresolve the sensor. On the other hand 60 MP sensor is way more demanding with over 130 lp/mm and if you use "pixel shift" function then many lenses will struggle - at least in the periphery...
UncleChip wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:37 pm
...
Q, is there a better way to achieve 2:1 for high image quality
Q, can I get to 3:1, with my lenses by adding stuff and keep very high IQ?
...
What "very high IQ" means in your case?

This will depends in part of the sensor, in part how exactly you want to show your images and from the lens itself (how much aberrations are acceptable and when you will get to the diffraction limit) - most consumer printers are with maximum print area 13x19 inches which is covered by 24 MP sensor at 300 dpi... this is probably one reason why manufacturers are in no hurry to go past this resolution for consumer cameras... 60 MP sensor will give you slightly more than 30x20 inches print at 300 dpi, which will mean custom print (in most cases rarely a person can afford $1000+ printer over 17 inches wide at home). Some can argue that anything out of 24 MP camera can be printed as large as you want just because you will have to back away to see so large print and the eye will not be able to resolve the smaller details anyway...

If you presentation will be on some kind of computer monitor/tablet/tv, even 4K one, 24 MP sensor is way too much. For 8k you will need 33 MP sensor but I never seen such monitor till now and it probably will be extremely expensive for the foreseeable future.

If you do not want to buy more lenses I guess simple reverse ring + additional tubes/bellows for the 50mm lens you already have will give you good results for magnifications over 2:1 - I never used this particular lens, but most 50 mm lens (even cheap ones) can be used this way with satisfactory result and if you keep it at f/2 diffraction should not be issue at least till 5:1.

UncleChip
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by UncleChip »

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:56 pm
UncleChip wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:43 pm
Thanks,
I had looked at the Laowa 2.5-5x as it ticked all the boxes, I think I dismissed it because of the price, I compared the price to my Voitglander and the canon 2-5x,

Just binging on reviews now so thanks, I have just seen a tripod mount for it so that helps
Excuse my ignorance, but why was it dismissed because of price, the lens is cheaper (more than 50%) than the Voigtlander and the Canon 1-5x, neither of which are better in terms of image quality (the opposite).
If I am reading this correctly, it seems like you dismissed it simply because it is cheap and cheap = bad? Please reconsider.
I had dismissed due to it being cheaper, over the years I have purchased many camera lenses and found that I usually need to pay for quality, I should of looked into it more as I had herd of good reviews on the other Laowa macro lenses, I have looked now and indeed it looks to be a great lens for the price so I will order one,

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

UncleChip wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:53 am
I had dismissed due to it being cheaper, over the years I have purchased many camera lenses and found that I usually need to pay for quality, I should of looked into it more as I had herd of good reviews on the other Laowa macro lenses, I have looked now and indeed it looks to be a great lens for the price so I will order one,
Great to know, it is built cheaper but the images are in no way cheap. You just do not get any electronic coupling, which some think is a deal breaker, however, many of us have demonstrated that the best aperture to shoot at is wide open, at F2.8. Mine is taped at F2.8. Going down will compromise the image quality, so the lack of any electronics does not matter for studio type work.

The designer of the lens also designed many other lenses for Tamron, Canon and Nikon, by the way. He is an industry veteran and a genius.

RobertOToole
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by RobertOToole »

UncleChip wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:53 am
Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:56 pm
UncleChip wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:43 pm
Thanks,
I had looked at the Laowa 2.5-5x as it ticked all the boxes, I think I dismissed it because of the price, I compared the price to my Voitglander and the canon 2-5x,

Just binging on reviews now so thanks, I have just seen a tripod mount for it so that helps
Excuse my ignorance, but why was it dismissed because of price, the lens is cheaper (more than 50%) than the Voigtlander and the Canon 1-5x, neither of which are better in terms of image quality (the opposite).
If I am reading this correctly, it seems like you dismissed it simply because it is cheap and cheap = bad? Please reconsider.
I had dismissed due to it being cheaper, over the years I have purchased many camera lenses and found that I usually need to pay for quality, I should of looked into it more as I had herd of good reviews on the other Laowa macro lenses, I have looked now and indeed it looks to be a great lens for the price so I will order one,
This might be a little too late but I'll post this to help others in the future.


https://www.closeuphotography.com/1x-ma ... -test-2022


__1x-test-2022.jpg


I was so impressed by the Laowa 100 (a loaner) when I finished this 1x test, I offered the owner to buy the lens, the test copy, and it was very kind of him to sell it to me. I was afraid that a new copy might not be as good.


FYI, the Voigtländer 110mm F2.5 APO-LANTHAR didn't make it into the test since I've tried two copies and they both had issues with purple CAs at 1x.



Best,

Robert

UncleChip
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by UncleChip »

Thanks for this, I love the internet :D

Has anybody tested the Laowa 90mm 2.8? You get a lighter lens designed for mirrorless

UncleChip
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by UncleChip »

RobertOToole wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:02 pm
UncleChip wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:53 am
Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:56 pm


Excuse my ignorance, but why was it dismissed because of price, the lens is cheaper (more than 50%) than the Voigtlander and the Canon 1-5x, neither of which are better in terms of image quality (the opposite).
If I am reading this correctly, it seems like you dismissed it simply because it is cheap and cheap = bad? Please reconsider.
I had dismissed due to it being cheaper, over the years I have purchased many camera lenses and found that I usually need to pay for quality, I should of looked into it more as I had herd of good reviews on the other Laowa macro lenses, I have looked now and indeed it looks to be a great lens for the price so I will order one,
This might be a little too late but I'll post this to help others in the future.


https://www.closeuphotography.com/1x-ma ... -test-2022



__1x-test-2022.jpg



I was so impressed by the Laowa 100 (a loaner) when I finished this 1x test, I offered the owner to buy the lens, the test copy, and it was very kind of him to sell it to me. I was afraid that a new copy might not be as good.


FYI, the Voigtländer 110mm F2.5 APO-LANTHAR didn't make it into the test since I've tried two copies and they both had issues with purple CAs at 1x.



Best,

Robert
Great reviews thanks for the link,

One little thing, after reading the comments on the voitglander 110APO I went an did a quick test to check for the high purple CA, as I had never noticed it, I only did a quick test at 1:1 f2.5, f4, f5.6, and I could see no CA at all these are on my lower resolution Sony A9

RobertOToole
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by RobertOToole »

UncleChip wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:32 pm

One little thing, after reading the comments on the voitglander 110APO I went an did a quick test to check for the high purple CA, as I had never noticed it, I only did a quick test at 1:1 f2.5, f4, f5.6, and I could see no CA at all these are on my lower resolution Sony A9
Generally I don't think the the purple CAs/haze will show on normal real world subjects, but it did on a wafer. I returned the first unit back and they sent a new one. Second copy? The same issue.

This is the full test: https://www.closeuphotography.com/1x-test-2020


I'll save you a few clicks and post the 100% crops below.


Hint, look at the blacks between wafer features (upper left corner esp.) to see the blue cast, also sharpness is lower than the Sigma ART.


Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 110mm f/2.5 Macro Lens

Cosina-Voigtlander-110-2.5-Macro-lens-www-Closeuphotography-com-A.jpg

Sigma Art 70mm f/2.8 DG Macro Lens

_Sigma-70mm+Art-macro-lens-www-Closeuphotography-com-A.jpg

Notes: both images taken from a stack. Processed the same, all the same settings. The most interesting part? The Sigma ART 70 isn't even their best lens. The ART 105 is sharper. The Sony FE 90mm f/2.8 Macro G Oss Macro Lens, Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 110mm f/2.5 Macro Lens, and Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 125mm f/2.5 SL Macro Lens failed to make the cut at 1x. What can I say, testing with wafers makes things easy for me but they seem to torture lenses!

Best,

Robert

RobertOToole
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by RobertOToole »

UncleChip wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:53 pm
Thanks for this, I love the internet :D

Has anybody tested the Laowa 90mm 2.8? You get a lighter lens designed for mirrorless
All I know for sure is that I want one!

That one and the little mini-macro lens, the 5.6/85.

Don't think anyone has actually tested the 90mm at 1x, almost all online tests are done at 1:10 or infinity. There might be one out there though.

Best,

Robert

UncleChip
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by UncleChip »

RobertOToole wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:15 pm
UncleChip wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:32 pm

One little thing, after reading the comments on the voitglander 110APO I went an did a quick test to check for the high purple CA, as I had never noticed it, I only did a quick test at 1:1 f2.5, f4, f5.6, and I could see no CA at all these are on my lower resolution Sony A9
Generally I don't think the the purple CAs/haze will show on normal real world subjects, but it did on a wafer. I returned the first unit back and they sent a new one. Second copy? The same issue.

This is the full test: https://www.closeuphotography.com/1x-test-2020


I'll save you a few clicks and post the 100% crops below.


Hint, look at the blacks between wafer features (upper left corner esp.) to see the blue cast, also sharpness is lower than the Sigma ART.


Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 110mm f/2.5 Macro Lens


Cosina-Voigtlander-110-2.5-Macro-lens-www-Closeuphotography-com-A.jpg


Sigma Art 70mm f/2.8 DG Macro Lens


_Sigma-70mm+Art-macro-lens-www-Closeuphotography-com-A.jpg


Notes: both images taken from a stack. Processed the same, all the same settings. The most interesting part? The Sigma ART 70 isn't even their best lens. The ART 105 is sharper. The Sony FE 90mm f/2.8 Macro G Oss Macro Lens, Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 110mm f/2.5 Macro Lens, and Voigtlander APO-Lanthar 125mm f/2.5 SL Macro Lens failed to make the cut at 1x. What can I say, testing with wafers makes things easy for me but they seem to torture lenses!

Best,

Robert

Thanks for this, I have taken another image of my driving license, this being the smallest sharpest font with the highest contrast I can find, I see no CA, even zoomed in to 200%, I certainly wouldn’t see anything in any real world viewing media,
Now I am all for buying new lenses, in fact I need very little encouragement 😉, but if I have to borrow a piece of silica and view everything at the pixel level to see any difference then for me there is little point, I need to see a real world use advantage,
I viewed on my camera screen and imported to photoshop with no lens calibration, I know some lenses have the auto corrected bit built into the raw, but again I see no point in trying to turn it off,

Not trying to be argumentative, quite the opposite, I have found your blog really informative, and if I thought the Volt wasn’t up to the task I would change it,

RobertOToole
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by RobertOToole »

UncleChip wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:21 am

Thanks for this, I have taken another image of my driving license, this being the smallest sharpest font with the highest contrast I can find, I see no CA, even zoomed in to 200%, I certainly wouldn’t see anything in any real world viewing media,
Agreed. That is why I run lenses side by side so with a comparison it is possible to see small differences. That said, I think you are right, if you don't see any problem, enjoy the lens.

To be honest macro lens performance now is so high its very hard to see differences in IQ unless you really work at it and work carefully. The gap between consumer and the Printing Nikkor 105A is narrowing (the PN is still king).
Now I am all for buying new lenses, in fact I need very little encouragement 😉, but if I have to borrow a piece of silica and view everything at the pixel level to see any difference then for me there is little point, I need to see a real world use advantage,
I viewed on my camera screen and imported to photoshop with no lens calibration, I know some lenses have the auto corrected bit built into the raw, but again I see no point in trying to turn it off,
This is one of the reasons I started my blog. I would read online how a new lens is superb, best ever, without any faults, then I would buy it, test it next to my Sigma and can you guess? The Sigma Art (or Laowoa) is better, sharper and cleaner. I get it, they have to make money on commission links so bloggers promote every new lens. So my site is meant to offer an alternative with only the honest results that I find. No commission links to make 5% off sales referrals and I've been asked "why don't you run BH or Amazon links like everyone else?"

There are other important issues like focal length. I don't think I've seen a single online test that lists the true focal length of a lens at min distance. I started to list FL on my blog and started a thread here (that we should keep going).....I don't see it now....I can post it later. But FL is important for isolating the subject and for nice bokeh but for some reason no one talks about it.

I should also mention I'm 100% against forced corrections, we should have a choice, Adobe uses OPT codes that enable corrections on certain cameras before you even see the photo and no way to turn it off. There is a link here on the forum somewhere about this.

There are lots more but I'll stop now #-o

Not trying to be argumentative, quite the opposite, I have found your blog really informative, and if I thought the Volt wasn’t up to the task I would change it,

Thanks for that I didn't read it as being argumentative. I never said the Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR wasn't up to the task. I own a 125mm f/2.5 SL after all and I've visited the main factory 3 in Nagano 3 times, there is a post here on the forum about it, so I am a big fan. But when I see something that is a problem, I point it out, that is one of the main reasons I started my site as I've mentioned. I'm just glad I didn't have to pay for the two 110 APO-Lanthars that failed the test, they were loaners!

Ask me anything or message me for any advice anytime if I can help, thats why I'm here.

Best,

RobertOToole
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Re: Beginners Mk2 Questions

Post by RobertOToole »

Found one:

Macro Lens Effective Focal Length vs Focal Length at Infinity: Updated

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=44478

I'll look for the other I mentioned.

Best,

Robert

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