Fujifilm GFX 50R with Schneider Makro Symmar 120/5.9 0059 stacked with various lenses

[jscff]

Hi everybody,

I bought into the GFX series and like many, I really like the Makro Symmar 80 and 120 for images around 0.8-1.2: 1. The M-Componon 28/4 was not that impressive for 3:1 and higher, so I tried a stacking setup, as Robert suggests on his site (Thanks for this ressource!).

Setup: Fujifilm GFX 50R with Lens Stack: Schneider Makro Symmar 120/5.9 0059 + Schneider M-Componon 28/4. Both lenses with aperture wide open and facing regularly, about 1 cm between the lenses. M65 tubes with DIY flocking. M65 to GFX Adapter. Lens Coupling using M40.5 to M52 (Makro Symmar) and M52 to M42 and Schneider M-Componon to M42 (M-Componon) adapters.
Custom built solid stand using aluminium extrusions, rig is placed on a slab of granite. Two Godox TT350 Flashes. ISO 100, 1/125s. MJKZZ Rail.

Since either the lens has a warped field of view or my wafer is not flat, I had to stack 5 images to get everything sharp (step size 40 µm). Effective Maginification about 4.2:1 (measured and calculated). Shot with Capture One 22, just in-camera sharpening . Export to Helicon Focus, Stacked using DepthMap (Method B, Radius 8, Smoothing 4)



I must say, that I am kind of happy about the result. The combination shows some vignetting and the is a drop off in sharpness to the corners, but I doubt that this will be better using a Mitutoyo 5x.



In the future, I might also try to stack the Schneider Apo Componon 40 2.8 and 60 2.8 onto the Makro Symmar for 3:1 and 2:1 on "medium" format.



Hope this helps somebody. Kind regards.

[jscff]

Setup: Fujifilm GFX 50R with Lens Stack: Schneider Makro Symmar 120/5.9 0059 (wide open) + Schneider Apo Componon 40/2.8 closed to 5.6 and reversed. About 0.5 cm between the lenses. M65 tubes with DIY flocking. M65 to GFX Adapter. Lens Coupling using M40.5 to M52 (Makro Symmar) and M52 to M42 and Schneider V38 to M42 (Apo Componon) adapters.
Custom built solid stand using aluminium extrusions, rig is placed on a slab of granite. Two Godox TT350 Flashes. ISO 100, 1/125s. MJKZZ Rail.

The Apo Componon has a small image circle. To get as much as possible, I stacked 14 images (step size 40 µm). Effective Maginification about 3:1 (measured and calculated). Shot with Capture One 22, just in-camera sharpening . Export to Helicon Focus, Stacked using DepthMap (Method B, Radius 8, Smoothing 4)

CAREFUL: This image was taken with the 40/2.8 in regular orientation, not reversed.



This is kind of really bad.

[JKT]

Wide open it is bad. Try stopping it down ... a lot. The corners get better, but overall resolution drops. See if you can find a reasonable compromise.

And if you are happy with M-Componon 28 with Makro-Symmar 120, you should try Componon 35mm on the M-S. It is even better.

[jscff]

Setup: Fujifilm GFX 50R with Lens Stack: Schneider Makro Symmar 120/5.9 0059 (wide open) + Schneider Apo Componon 60/4 wide open and reversed. About 1.2 cm between the lenses. M65 tubes with DIY flocking. M65 to GFX Adapter. Lens Coupling using M40.5 to M52 (Makro Symmar) and M37 to M37 (male male) and M37 to m42 step up ring Apo Componon) adapters.
Custom built solid stand using aluminium extrusions, rig is placed on a slab of granite. Two Godox TT350 Flashes. ISO 100, 1/125s. MJKZZ Rail.

The Apo Componon has a small image circle. To get as much as possible, I stacked 13 images (step size 40 µm). Effective Maginification about 2:1 (calculated). Shot with Capture One 22, just in-camera sharpening . Export to Helicon Focus, Stacked using DepthMap (Method B, Radius 8, Smoothing 4)



60 at f4 Corner performance I not good.

It gets a bit better at f8

[jscff]

Wide open it is bad. Try stopping it down ... a lot. The corners get better, but overall resolution drops. See if you can find a reasonable compromise.

And if you are happy with M-Componon 28 with Makro-Symmar 120, you should try Componon 35mm on the M-S. It is even better.

Thanks for your reply. When I did the Apo Componon 60/4 I in hindsight noticed that I had not reversed to 40/2.8... :\

So I did it now. 40 2.8 at f4. 12 images, same technical stuff as with the others. Much better result!

[dickb]

Nice to see some results taken with the GFX 50R.

Effective Maginification about 1:4.2 (measured and calculated).

I must say, that I am kind of happy about the result. The combination shows some vignetting and the is a drop off in sharpness to the corners, but I doubt that this will be better using a Mitutoyo 5x.

In the future, I might also try to stack the Schneider Apo Componon 40 2.8 and 60 2.8 onto the Makro Symmar for 1:3 and 1:2 on "medium" format.

Do you mean magnifications of 4.2x, 3x and 2x? Those are normally written as 4.2:1, 3:1 and 2:1. Since you compare it to the Mitutoyo 5x that would make sense.

The vignetting with these lens combinations suggests to me that the MS120 may not be the best tube lens for this system. Have you tried any longer focal length tube lenses?

[Lou Jost]

The vignetting with these lens combinations suggests to me that the MS120 may not be the best tube lens for this system. Have you tried any longer focal length tube lenses?

Another option to consider is a medium-format tube lens. I usually use the Mamiya 200mm Apo (645) which is exquisite on FF.

[JKT]

I in hindsight noticed that I had not reversed to 40/2.8... :\

...which brings up the question did I? Not mentioned in the notes, so needs to be re-checked.

Makro-Symmar 120 seems surprisingly tolerant of wide apertures before it. I tested - just for fun - Gretag 120mm reversed in front of it and Canon RF 2x. There was no appreciable vignetting. Then I dropped it to 1.4x and the vignetting was still quite moderate. In both cases the image held sharpness pretty much up to APS-C corners. Looking at the lenses, I didn't expect them to work at all.

[dickb]

I in hindsight noticed that I had not reversed to 40/2.8... :\

...which brings up the question did I? Not mentioned in the notes, so needs to be re-checked.

That is one drawback of the V38 system - once or twice I have taken off the shroud with the filter threads to mount it in a certain way. Once you have the bare lens with V38 mounts front and back, it is easy to lose track of its orientation. And even its identity, as the name is only written on the detachable shroud. I have seen auctions with an unspecified and anonymous V38 lens on a line scan camera.

[RobertOToole]

Hi everybody,

I bought into the GFX series and like many, I really like the Makro Symmar 80 and 120 for images around 1: 0.8 - 1.2. The M-Componon 28/4 was not that impressive for 1:3 and higher, so I tried a stacking setup, as Robert suggests on his site (Thanks for this ressource!).

Setup: Fujifilm GFX 50R with Lens Stack: Schneider Makro Symmar 120/5.9 0059 + Schneider M-Componon 28/4. Both lenses with aperture wide open and facing regularly, about 1 cm between the lenses. M65 tubes with DIY flocking. M65 to GFX Adapter. Lens Coupling using M40.5 to M52 (Makro Symmar) and M52 to M42 and Schneider M-Componon to M42 (M-Componon) adapters.
Custom built solid stand using aluminium extrusions, rig is placed on a slab of granite. Two Godox TT350 Flashes. ISO 100, 1/125s. MJKZZ Rail.

Since either the lens has a warped field of view or my wafer is not flat, I had to stack 5 images to get everything sharp (step size 40 µm). Effective Maginification about 1:4.2 (measured and calculated). Shot with Capture One 22, just in-camera sharpening . Export to Helicon Focus, Stacked using DepthMap (Method B, Radius 8, Smoothing 4)



I must say, that I am kind of happy about the result. The combination shows some vignetting and the is a drop off in sharpness to the corners, but I doubt that this will be better using a Mitutoyo 5x.



In the future, I might also try to stack the Schneider Apo Componon 40 2.8 and 60 2.8 onto the Makro Symmar for 1:3 and 1:2 on "medium" format.



Hope this helps somebody. Kind regards.

Quick note to say this is interesting jscff, thanks for taking time to post it. I would like to go to MF eventually, I've seen the results from friends that use the GFX100 and the results are really fantastic (for more distant subjects), so maybe there is a Fujifilm camera in my future.

I'll read more and add another comment when I have more time, I'm in the middle of processing new test images.

Best,

Robert

[RobertOToole]

I in hindsight noticed that I had not reversed to 40/2.8... :\

...which brings up the question did I? Not mentioned in the notes, so needs to be re-checked.

That is one drawback of the V38 system - once or twice I have taken off the shroud with the filter threads to mount it in a certain way. Once you have the bare lens with V38 mounts front and back, it is easy to lose track of its orientation. And even its identity, as the name is only written on the detachable shroud. I have seen auctions with an unspecified and anonymous V38 lens on a line scan camera.

I know what you mean Dick. Most of my SK V38 lenses have a small white decal with the focal length, on the front of the lens, on the bare inner front barrel. I've learned to recognize the bare lenses even without it but even with that I've had to resort to looking at the lens data PDF for measurements to identify a lens a couple of times.

One positive? The V38 lens is unrecognizable as a lens and I've managed to get one for free more than once when they were included with various lens parts.

Years ago I sent the Los Angeles SK office a request to buy a V38 lens shroud (hood). In reply SK LA sent me a free shroud and lens cap and only charged $5 for shipping. After that the CEO of SK took time to email a note to thank me for the nice blog post commenting on the excellent customer service. Somehow I still don't ever see any other major lens manufacturer like Nikon/Canon or Fujifilm sending someone a lens hood and cap for free!

Back to work.

BR,

Robert

[jscff]

Do you mean magnifications of 4.2x, 3x and 2x? Those are normally written as 4.2:1, 3:1 and 2:1. Since you compare it to the Mitutoyo 5x that would make sense.

Thank you for your feedback. I have revised the posts with magnificatio ratios according to convention.

The vignetting with these lens combinations suggests to me that the MS120 may not be the best tube lens for this system. Have you tried any longer focal length tube lenses?

I have a Componon-S 135 that I briefly checked with the M-Componon 28/4 that did not show that amount of vignetting, but I have yet to mount it on the rig and shoot. I will do some tests with it and post the results.

[jscff]

Wide open it is bad. Try stopping it down ... a lot. The corners get better, but overall resolution drops. See if you can find a reasonable compromise.

And if you are happy with M-Componon 28 with Makro-Symmar 120, you should try Componon 35mm on the M-S. It is even better.

Thanks for your reply JKT. I was under the impression that the 35 Componon (f2.8 or f4) were made for smaller image circles and therefore even stacked would not work well on 55mm image circles, so I never bothered checking. I have a 35/4 Componon and will try it. As far as the 40/2.8 goes - I will not use it on the GFX.

[jscff]

The vignetting with these lens combinations suggests to me that the MS120 may not be the best tube lens for this system. Have you tried any longer focal length tube lenses?

Another option to consider is a medium-format tube lens. I usually use the Mamiya 200mm Apo (645) which is exquisite on FF.

Thanks Lou for posting this suggestion. But I fear the Mamiya 645 200 APO is a tad too large, both in weight and in price for me to use. The other Mamiya 645 lenses I own (110,150,300) I have yet to try, but I do not expect much, maybe the 110 might be good as it is the sharpest of the three.

[JKT]

Thanks for your reply JKT. I was under the impression that the 35 Componon (f2.8 or f4) were made for smaller image circles and therefore even stacked would not work well on 55mm image circles, so I never bothered checking. I have a 35/4 Componon and will try it. As far as the 40/2.8 goes - I will not use it on the GFX.

Right - MF. After you mentioned Mitutoyo and S-K M-S 120mm, MF didn't come to mind.
Checking my notes, there is indeed vignetting and some softness at the corners with 35mm and bare S-K M-S 120. It becomes something else entirely when I add RF 1.4x. With magnification close to 5:1 it is perfect to the corners, but that is only FF...