Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

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ray_parkhurst
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Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

I've been shooting phono styli with a variety of objectives over the years, with multiple goals, which are (in priority order): First, I need at least 10mm WD in order to shoot the styli at a 45-deg angle without hitting the body; Second, I need sufficient resolution to measure the contact patch dimensions; Third, I'd like to have low enough CAs that I can present the images in color; and Fourth, it would be aesthetically nice to have a low enough magnification to view the entire stylus, plus parts of the cantilever. As with many endeavors, the aesthetic aspects, even though they are technically lower priority, tend to drive decisions.

Here are the objectives I've been working with, in time order of implementation:

Nikon 10x BD with 2x TC: great WD, marginal resolution, marginal CAs, good FOV
Nikon 20x MM: great WD, decent resolution, marginal CAs, good FOV
Nikon 20x ELWD BD: good WD, decent resolution, marginal CAs, good FOV
Nikon 40x ELWD BD: marginal WD, good resolution, marginal CAs, narrow FOV
Mitutoyo 50x BD: good WD, very good resolution, good CAs, narrow FOV

The narrow FOV on the 40x and 50x pushed me back to using the Nikon 20x MM, and accepting the purple fringing and marginal resolution. The result was "good enough" when presented with reduced saturation and increased sharpness. I asked on this forum a while back about a better 20x, and someone (wish I could give credit) recommended the 20x NeoSPlan, and I've been searching for a good one ever since. Finally one showed up in good condition and I snagged it. Here are its qualities:

Olympus 20x NeoSPlan: good WD, very good resolution, good CAs, good FOV

Good, Very Good, Good, and Good means it's a winner!

To compare, I shot an elliptical stylus contact using the 20xMM, the 50xMitBD, and the 20ULWD. I shot both 20's at ~20x, and reduced the 50x to match the FOV. Here are the overall views with all 3, and the matched FOVs of just the tip. Note that I did shallow stacks around the contact plane, so the full images are not fully-developed.

The 20x ULWD is not a sharp as the 50x Mitty reduced to 20x, as expected, but it's not too bad, plus it seems to have no LoCAs and minimal LaCAs, unlike the Mitty.

Let me know any comments:

20xMM Full
20X MM_11_12.JPG
50xMit Full
50x Mit_11_12.JPG
20xULWD Full
S Plan 20_11_12.JPG
20xMM Contact
20X MM_10_13.JPG
50xMit Contact (reduced to match 20x FOVs)
50x Mit_10_13.JPG
20xULWD Contact
S Plan 20_10_13.JPG

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Scarodactyl
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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by Scarodactyl »

That'a very much contrary to my expectations! I defintiely would not have expected the neo splan to gmhave such well controlled CA given the eyepieces they are designed to work with. Olympus whk eyepieces have some fairly noticeable corrections built in--nevertheless these are great results without. Does it do as well in the corners or just in the center?

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:29 pm
That'a very much contrary to my expectations! I defintiely would not have expected the neo splan to gmhave such well controlled CA given the eyepieces they are designed to work with. Olympus whk eyepieces have some fairly noticeable corrections built in--nevertheless these are great results without. Does it do as well in the corners or just in the center?
Looks like it does "OK" for APS-C, with increased LaCA, but not out to the FF corners, which is pretty much as expected I guess.

Does a Mitty 20x do well out to the FF Corners?

Here are single images focused at the contact planes:

Center
DSC00001_14.JPG
APS-C Corner
DSC00002_14.JPG
FF Corner
DSC00003_14.JPG

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Scarodactyl
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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by Scarodactyl »

Much better than I'd expected. Interesting and puzzling results! If you use non-compensating objectives with whk eyepieces or objectives expecting whks with non-compensating eyepieces you definitely see a big impact on the image.

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

I still have the open question "does the Mitty 20x cover FF well?". My 10x does fine but I have not tested my 5x. I think it's been reported the 7.5x covers FF well. I may consider getting a Mitty 20x BD if it is verified to cover FF. I only need marginal FF coverage for the phono stylus work, as I will usually downsize any full-field images for publication, but for other work good coverage would be useful.

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by rjlittlefield »

I have tested the Mitty 20X at 10X on APS-C, using it with a 100mm rear lens. It held up well clear into the corners, being sharper everywhere in frame than a Mitty 10X used normally.

As I recall, nathanm's tests also confirmed good coverage on medium frame at 20X.

Ah yes, see https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 35#p208235 .

--Rik

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:42 am
I have tested the Mitty 20X at 10X on APS-C, using it with a 100mm rear lens. It held up well clear into the corners, being sharper everywhere in frame than a Mitty 10X used normally.

As I recall, nathanm's tests also confirmed good coverage on medium frame at 20X.

Ah yes, see https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 35#p208235 .

--Rik
Thanks, that's the clear confirmation I was looking for.

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

OK, I have a 20x Mitty BD on the way. Looks like it has the same thread (M40) as the 50x, so I should be able to use the same BD illuminator. Will shoot compo shots when it arrives.

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by Scarodactyl »

Awesome! The 20x is really, really nice.

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

I received the 20x Mitty BD today, but unfortunately it has a couple issues. First, I can clearly see significant haze and/or separation within the top lens group, and I believe I see similar problems in another lens group deeper in the lens. It's hard to tell due to the top lens group issues. And second, the lens was rattling around in the shipping box when it arrived. Seemed the lens somehow came out of the base, and the top also came loose from the base. The lens gouged up the lid quite a bit from being tossed around during shipment. I am leery that the "do not drop of fall" warning was not followed by the shippers!

All that said, I shot the same stylus tip with the 20x Mitty to compare with the other objectives. To compare 20x vs 20x, here's the 20x Mitty followed by the 20x NeoSPlan. What I'm seeing is lower sharpness and contrast from the Mitty. I don't think I can use this lens, so will likely be requesting return/refund from the seller. Looking forward to inputs.
20X Mit.JPG
S Plan 20_10_13.JPG
Edited to add: I just shot single images of the same stylus tip at center and the FF corner, see below. Definitely going to send this one back. I assume the performance "should" be much better than this, correct?
DSC00004_14.JPG
DSC00005_14.JPG

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by Scarodactyl »

That's a bummer. The mitutoyo 20x is great when you have a good copy, definitely worth sending back and trying again imo.

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

A member of the Vinyl Engine forum built a photo system loosely based on my recommendations in the "Stylus Evaluation Imaging" thread (see here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... hp?t=92996). He ended up using a Nikon LU Plan 20x ELWD and the results are really nice. Can anyone comment on this objective? CAs, sharpness vs the Mitty 20x, etc. The VE member has an extra one I'm considering buying, but the objective is a bit confusing. I can't tell based on the markings if the objective is a BD type or not. Some of the ones listed have an "A" in the nomenclature, and appear to have spacing between the lens elements and the outer casing, but it's not that clear from the various auction listings.

Another question...what would be the advantage of a TU vs LU 20x ELWD? What is the difference?

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by rjlittlefield »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:44 pm
A member of the Vinyl Engine forum built a photo system loosely based on my recommendations in the "Stylus Evaluation Imaging" thread (see here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... hp?t=92996).
I can't comment on the objectives you asked about, but I just wanted to say that I'm gobsmacked by the length of the vinylengine.com thread that you pointed to: 871 posts on 73 pages!

If there's something that you would particularly like us to see in that thread, then a more specific URL would be helpful.

--Rik

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by Scarodactyl »

It'll have more CA than a mitutoyo. The closest I have tried is a TU fluor 50x which had very good ca control. The LU is not rated beyond plan but the previous line of similarly-rated cf plans are pretty good.
TU is one generation newer and are similarly specced but probably a little better.

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Re: Oly ULWD NeoSPlan20 vs Nikon 20XMM vs Mitty 50X BD

Post by ray_parkhurst »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:00 pm
ray_parkhurst wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:44 pm
A member of the Vinyl Engine forum built a photo system loosely based on my recommendations in the "Stylus Evaluation Imaging" thread (see here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... hp?t=92996).
I can't comment on the objectives you asked about, but I just wanted to say that I'm gobsmacked by the length of the vinylengine.com thread that you pointed to: 871 posts on 73 pages!

If there's something that you would particularly like us to see in that thread, then a more specific URL would be helpful.

--Rik
Sorry for not giving specifics...it is indeed a long thread. The images of interest are at the bottom of page 71:

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... &start=840

They are very crisp with good color. Perhaps he's just very good at processing?

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