Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

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RobertOToole
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by RobertOToole »

16-9 wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 2:44 pm
Is it a general rule that to excel at one application, you have to forgo everything else? Most of the lenses I consider exceptional at their job are surprisingly poor as general-purpose tools. The PNs and MS180 seem close to the top of their game, but at longer distances they behave more like a decent slide projector lens.
The PN and MS are at the top as far as all the lenses I've ever used. No exceptions at least from the lenses I've used.

Correspondingly, in Delta-world, Focotars and the late, fast Meogons exist on a razor's edge: superb within a narrow range, and – so I gather from Ray's short distance tests, and our tests at longer distances – disappointing outside it.
Actually there are some are all-around excellent performing lenses out there. The Schneider Makro-Symmar 120 is excellent at the rated magnification as well as focused at infinity (and slightly beyond infinity). The MS beats almost all lenses I've tested. The MS 120 is something else. But there is a secret to this I believe, that is, Schneider used some kind of magical glass, and also a more likely one, is using the MS stopped down.

Most enlarging lenses I've tested behave the same way. Before I started my site in 2017 I spent lots of time and money, way, way too much to be honest, buying up 28mm enlarging lenses that I read were excellent at 2-3x only to find that my Canon MacroPhoto MP35 2.8/35 macro bellows lens smashed them all into little bits of dust when I compared them, it wasn't even close. Fast forward years later and I learned that the Componon 28mm and 35mm really are excellent, some of the best I've tested, but I was just using them incorrectly.

After years of being professional wildlife photographer (almost 18 years now) I've found that this characteristic of excelling at one job and only one job, also applies to very well to people and their aptitude. I've met and shot on trips with people that were so talented in specialized tasks, eye surgeons, fully tenured 32 year old MIT professors, space shuttle head engineer, even had a client that was an engineer that wrote most of Photoshops most famous tools (content aware, healing brush, and photomerge) only to find that they tried and they tried but they couldn't make a single artistic or interesting wildlife photo if their life depended on it. The Photoshop engineer could tell you exactly how the camera's sensor reacts to photons using physics.....but then try having a normal conversation with the guy or try to help him make a nice photo. Maybe we are all like lenses in a way?

Best,

Robert

simplejoy
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by simplejoy »

RobertOToole wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 10:28 pm
Maybe we are all like lenses in a way?
=D>
So true. I absolutely love that! If we are lenses I'd probably be a Steinheil "Repro-Objektiv 80 mm f/4.5":

Plain name and unassuming from the outside, somewhat damaged and not that sharp if you look at the whole picture... and yet (hopefullly) not yet devoid of the ability to create some interesting results when given a chance.

Image
All sweetness and light
by simple.joy, auf Flickr

Image
Take the damage to the next level
by simple.joy, auf Flickr

(You can see the separation taking its toll on the edges in the bokeh... it's somewhat surprising that this lens would still work at all!)

Now I'm curious - what lens would you be?

Anyway - thanks for sharing the stories about some of the different people you met on your trips. I'm sure it's interesting to see how you can't judge artistic capabilities just by looking at credentials.

16-9
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by 16-9 »

Johannes – can I be the first to say you've a real gift for poetic lens deployment, which you're raising to the level of a new art-form. In many of your best pictures the lens is the message and the messenger, and there's a poignant humanity in the way you're fashioning expressive, delicate imagery from obsolete industrial tools. I like it.

At the risk or too whimsical a diversion along the lines of 'if I was a lens' – or indulging in anthropomorphisation of lumps of glass and brass – you do encounter people who simply have well-wired brains and do everything well – sometimes at the top of their field. But the pure focus of a properly dysfunctional person buried deep in a niche impels, compels and propels them to feats of dedication a balanced individual would know to avoid. They're the tragi-glorious geniuses, distinct from the generic high-achievers. Perhaps there are lenses like both.

Whether you can fit people to lenses as easily, I'm not so sure. I know a few Wray Supars. Thinking about it, I know a few people who set my teeth on edge like 1980s Schneider Componon concave-5 bokeh. Many years ago, I knew people with leather jackets and open shirts that lived like a Nikkor 35-70/2.8 renders, but they all draw like Rogonars now – and state pensions.

I think this might be a form of synaesthesia I could do without. I'm struggling with the implications of belonging to a species that sold 2,000+ different versions of the enlarger lens.

RobertOToole
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by RobertOToole »

simplejoy wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:42 am

=D>
So true. I absolutely love that! If we are lenses I'd probably be a Steinheil "Repro-Objektiv 80 mm f/4.5":

Plain name and unassuming from the outside, somewhat damaged and not that sharp if you look at the whole picture... and yet (hopefullly) not yet devoid of the ability to create some interesting results when given a chance.

(You can see the separation taking its toll on the edges in the bokeh... it's somewhat surprising that this lens would still work at all!)
That's interesting that you can see it in the bokeh disks, thanks for mentioning that.
Now I'm curious - what lens would you be?
Years ago at a track somewhere, maybe F1 or Laguna Seca, I noticed a TV camera a few feet away. The lens was a big white box and it read something like CANON Super Ultra HD power zoom, 10-1000mm f/1.2! Looked up the list price later...$289,000. Wonder if these are on eBay yet?

I'm more like one of my 4/500 telephoto lenses in F-mount that will have to be retired soon, perfectly capable still but the lens mount is obsolete for action and wildlife. Nice shape but lots of miles on it (I take care of my equipment)!
Anyway - thanks for sharing the stories about some of the different people you met on your trips. I'm sure it's interesting to see how you can't judge artistic capabilities just by looking at credentials.
The problem is that you can't buy a creative aesthetic eye and on the other hand being a good photographer doesn't mean much in terms of success. Most famous photographers (from Nikon-Canon-Sony) really aren't world-class talented phototogs to be honest after attending and speaking at photo trade shows all over the world. I've seen it all.

I think a lot of people trained as an engineer or people in the medical field (I tend to have a lot as clients) spend their whole life memorizing things for work so they see wildlife photography as an escape but the problem is they are not creative at all. They are taught not to think just follow directions and it doesn't usually work for making good photos. I cant tell you how many times I've been told that I was doing making a photo "wasn't possible" as I doing "it".

Best,

Robert

RobertOToole
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by RobertOToole »

16-9 wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:51 am
.........

At the risk or too whimsical a diversion along the lines of 'if I was a lens' – or indulging in anthropomorphisation of lumps of glass and brass – you do encounter people who simply have well-wired brains and do everything well – sometimes at the top of their field. But the pure focus of a properly dysfunctional person buried deep in a niche impels, compels and propels them to feats of dedication a balanced individual would know to avoid. They're the tragi-glorious geniuses, distinct from the generic high-achievers. Perhaps there are lenses like both.
Pretty sure thats being properly diagnosed now as Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and ADHD (Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder) #-o

I'm familiar with the symptoms!
......

I think this might be a form of synaesthesia I could do without. I'm struggling with the implications of belonging to a species that sold 2,000+ different versions of the enlarger lens.
All re-badged and rehoused with the same design since 1961, using different brand plates. That's Schneider's strategy since 1913 and it works. #-o

Best,

Robert

RobertOToole
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by RobertOToole »

RobertOToole wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:36 am

Years ago at a track somewhere, maybe F1 or Laguna Seca, I noticed a TV camera a few feet away. The lens was a big white box and it read something like CANON Super Ultra HD power zoom, 10-1000mm f/1.2! Looked up the list price later...$289,000. Wonder if these are on eBay yet?
Wonder what the Bokeh is like.....seriously!

Best,

Robert

Scarodactyl
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by Scarodactyl »

I recently saw a youtune video of a guy looking at and restoring an old TV camera with lens which was priced similarly new. Unfortunately that was with the existing sensor which doesn't hold up so well, but I'd love to see how one of thede lenses would work with a more modern sensor.

Lou Jost
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by Lou Jost »

What were the pixel dimensions of televisions back then? I think something like 900 pixels wide. Those TV camera lenses might have been optimized for things other than resolution. My rule of thumb is that a commercially made lens is only going to be as good as it needs to be for its application, and no better. A lens that is much better than the medium it is designed for would be unnecessarily expensive, and would be outcompeted on the market by more "sensible" lenses.

RobertOToole
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by RobertOToole »

Lou Jost wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:43 pm
What were the pixel dimensions of televisions back then? I think something like 900 pixels wide. Those TV camera lenses might have been optimized for things other than resolution. My rule of thumb is that a commercially made lens is only going to be as good as it needs to be for its application, and no better. A lens that is much better than the medium it is designed for would be unnecessarily expensive, and would be outcompeted on the market by more "sensible" lenses.
I think they were 2/3 in sensors that output 1080P at the highest. Not very impressive. Canon has a new version now with 4K res full frame at 8.5mm-1000mm f/1.7 with a optional 2x TC. No idea the cost of the new lens.....not cheap thats for sure.

viktor j nilsson
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by viktor j nilsson »

Screenshot_20221112-090949_2.jpg
f1.7 at 340mm, and f5.0 at 1000mm. Still extremely impressive, and I'm sure extremely expensive.

Is there a different one for full frame ? Didn't find that in a quick search.

simplejoy
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Re: Closeuphotography.com Lens Test Schedule Update incl. Printing Nikkor Test

Post by simplejoy »

16-9 wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:51 am
Johannes – can I be the first to say you've a real gift for poetic lens deployment, which you're raising to the level of a new art-form. In many of your best pictures the lens is the message and the messenger, and there's a poignant humanity in the way you're fashioning expressive, delicate imagery from obsolete industrial tools. I like it.
Thanks, that's very kind! Still got lots to learn in order to do some of the most interesting lenses justice though...
RobertOToole wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:36 am

That's interesting that you can see it in the bokeh disks, thanks for mentioning that.
RobertOToole wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:36 am

Years ago at a track somewhere, maybe F1 or Laguna Seca, I noticed a TV camera a few feet away. The lens was a big white box and it read something like CANON Super Ultra HD power zoom, 10-1000mm f/1.2! Looked up the list price later...$289,000. Wonder if these are on eBay yet?

I'm more like one of my 4/500 telephoto lenses in F-mount that will have to be retired soon, perfectly capable still but the lens mount is obsolete for action and wildlife. Nice shape but lots of miles on it (I take care of my equipment)!
Excellent and well thought-out description even though you certainly can't retire - we all depend on you for showing us all these interesting lenses! However if you get that giant Canon Super power zoom (and use it in the field chasing after some insects, or reversed for some macro tests) - that would probably be a great time to retire :wink:

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