Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

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mfischbein
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Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by mfischbein »

Hi, I am new to this forum, I have been trying the search feature to find the info I need, but am having trouble.

I am planning to purchase camera equipment to do jewellery photography.

I am currently considering a mirrorless camera such as the Canon RP and Nikon Z50.

I have not decided on a lenses yet and am trying to decide if it is better to buy a 35 mm macro or a 105 mm macro lens.

I am also trying to understand if I will need to do focus stacking with my setup and whether there is a camera that has some sort of auto routine to do focus stacking.

I suspect that all of these topics are covered, but it would be helpful if someone can point me in the right direction ie links to specific articles.

Thanks

Chris S.
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by Chris S. »

Welcome aboard! :D I’ll try to answer some of your questions; other members will surely chime in on the parts I don't know.

Admittedly, our forum isn’t the easiest place to search. I think of it as like reading the lab notebooks of a community of researchers—a great trove of cutting-edge information, but not necessarily in the most accessible format.
I am currently considering a mirrorless camera such as the Canon RP and Nikon Z50.
I haven’t had either of these cameras in hand, and am steeped in the Nikon system rather than Canon. But from comparing specifications, I’d suggest leaning toward the Canon RP, if your choice is limited to these two particular bodies. However, you might consider the Nikon Z5, rather than the Nikon Z50. The Nikon Z5 is a more comparable camera to the Canon RP.

Why? The Canon RP and Nikon Z5 are “full frame” bodies with sensors about 24mm x36mm; The Nikon Z50 is an “APS-C” body with a smaller sensor about 16mm x 24mm. Either of these two sensor sizes could be reasonable for jewelry photography--if paired with well-matched hardware and workflow; but comparing two bodies with similar-size sensors is more apples-to-apples than comparing two bodies with different sensor sizes, which is apples to oranges.

Also, as we’ve recently discussed in another thread, the Nikon Z50 lacks a wired remote shutter port. This means that if you want to trigger this camera remotely, without touching it (and thereby causing vibration), you need to use a bluetooth remote. While such remotes are easy to get, having a port for a wired remote will give you more options if you ever decide to automate your jewelry photography, such as for focus stacking. Both the Canon RP and Nikon Z5 do have wired remote ports.
I have not decided on a lenses yet and am trying to decide if it is better to buy a 35 mm macro or a 105 mm macro lens.
For a full-frame camera, I’d recommend a macro lens with a focal length in the range of 90-105mm, and think you’d find 35mm uncomfortably short (I've been in this situation). The longer lenses will permit greater distance between the subject and lens. This will make it easier to set up your lighting and give more pleasing perspective. If you buy an APS-C body, the equivalent focal length for your macro lens will be about 60mm or a bit more.

If you purchase a Nikon body, be aware that lots of older macro lenses will work fine with it, which can save you money. The discontinued micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AF-D is an excellent choice. So is the manual focus micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AI-S (and some other versions of AI—but check in here before buying those others, as some work and some don't).
I am also trying to understand if I will need to do focus stacking with my setup and whether there is a camera that has some sort of auto routine to do focus stacking.
Focus stacking adds a lot of flexibility, and makes some things possible that are not possible without it. Whether you need it or not depends on exactly what you are doing with jewelry photography—to help further here, you might tell us what sorts of jewelry you photograph (necklaces vs. rings, for example): do you want to take close-ups of small features on the jewelry? If so, how small? What will you use the images for—large prints vs. small sized posts on the Internet? How much time and effort do you want to put into your work? How picky do you want to be about the results?

Yes, there are cameras that will do focus stacking for you by racking focus in the lens. Someone else will have to comment on this.

You might find it useful to look at " Is it better to use a focus rail or the ring on my lens?" in the Zerene Stacker support pages.

Cheers,

--Chris S.

--edited typo

AlP
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by AlP »

Hi. I did a lot of jewellery photography a few years ago for a local company. If your heart is set on Canon then go with the new Canon RF 100mm macro due to the working distance. The RP camera I believe is wireless remote only. Depending on the size of the subject and angle you'll want to focus stack either by manual or auto rail or a good tripod and manually focus via the lens. Normally a lens sweet spot is two to three stops from wide open (eg. f2.8 would be f5.6/f8). Avoid small apertures due to diffraction. Lighting for semi and precious gems is different for each. I found a focusable flashlight useful for opal to bring out the "fire" and worked for amber too. Depending on the "cut" (marquise, oval, radiant, etc) brings its own challenges for the facets. If possible, you may want to tie into a monitor to see the "big picture". Also jewellery settings are highly reflective this also brings challenges.

Adalbert
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by Adalbert »

Hi Mfischbein,

Welcome to the forum!

I would recommend Canon EOS M6 Mark II.

And a macro lens to go with it e.g. EF 100L.

If your jewels need some magnification, then you can put a microscope lens on the EF lens.

BTW, crop cameras make less problems with microscope lenses.

Best, ADi

JKT
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by JKT »

AlP wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:19 am
The RP camera I believe is wireless remote only.
Nope - it can also take 2.5mm 3-pole stereo plug.

Chris S.
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by Chris S. »

JKT wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:57 am
AlP wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:19 am
The RP camera I believe is wireless remote only.
Nope - it can also take 2.5mm 3-pole stereo plug.
I agree with JKT that the Canon RP will accept a 2.5mm, 3-pole stereo plug for a wired remote. I had checked this in the Canon RP manual before my earlier post.

--Chris S.

mfischbein
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by mfischbein »

Thanks to all those who replied, particularly to Chris S for his very detailed response. I am continuing my research but am now looking at the Canon RP vs the Nikon Z5 (as looking at the Z50 before)

Chris S.
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by Chris S. »

You're very welcome, mfischbein! :D Good luck as you continue your research.

Also, I looked at the reference manual for the Nikon D5 to see what it says about in-camera focus stacking functions. Most modern Nikon bodies, I think (and other major brands as well), do have this feature (my Nikon bodies aren't quite new enough), and this includes the Z5. Nikon calls the feature "Focus Shift," and begins explaining it on page 322 of the 788 page manual. One might hope that with such a long manual, features such as focus shift would be explained in detail. But no, Nikon gives you the basic steps, rather than go into detail, then tells you to "Try experimenting with different settings before shooting."

I suspect that most camera makers with focus stacking functions are equally unhelpful in their disclosure. This boggles the mind. Whatever the lens is doing during "Focus shift," there is an algorithm controlling it. Why not disclose and explain the algorithm? There would be math, but many photographers can handle math without injuring themselves. Then we could treat Focus shift as a deterministic system, and enter values we calculate to give the result we want. For photographers who don't want to do math, we could create charts or perhaps an app to help them. But at present, it appears that everyone will have to experiment for himself. Ugh.

Sorry for the rant! Bottom line is that this sort of feature might well be useful to you, but you'll have to experiment a bit to determine what values you like for several settings.

--Chris S.

mfischbein
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by mfischbein »

"Also, I looked at the reference manual for the Nikon D5 to see what it says about in-camera focus stacking functions. Most modern Nikon bodies, I think (and other major brands as well), do have this feature (my Nikon bodies aren't quite new enough), and this includes the Z5. Nikon calls the feature "Focus Shift," and begins explaining it on page 322 of the 788 page manual. One might hope that with such a long manual, features such as focus shift would be explained in detail. But no, Nikon gives you the basic steps, rather than go into detail, then tells you to "Try experimenting with different settings before shooting." "

Thanks again Chris
This feature is exactly what I was looking for. I went to two camera stores to discuss the features of the Canon RP and the Nikon Z5 and neither sales person mentioned this capability. I know that sales people can't be expected to know everything about every camera, but both represented themselves as being very knowledgeable in macrophotography. I am leaning towards the Z5 as it seems to have more advanced software/features than the RP but it does cost about $500 more than the RP (in Canada)

JKT
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by JKT »

mfischbein wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:13 pm
This feature is exactly what I was looking for.
And you'll find it in RP as well. I've used it occasionally ... though I've always saved the raw imaged and stacked with separate program. I don't even know if the camera or DPP (Canon's SW) can do the stacking.

mfischbein
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by mfischbein »

And you'll find it in RP as well. I've used it occasionally ...
Hey JKT........Can you please tell me how to access the stacking feature in the Canon RP

Chris S.
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by Chris S. »

I see instructions for stacking in the Canon EOS RP Advanced User Guide, pages 203-205. Canon calls the feature "Focus Bracketing." Judging from the manuals for the Canon RP and Nikon Z5, this feature seems to be implemented similarly by both companies.

I also see the Canon RP implementation reviewed by George Lepp: In-Camera Focus Stacking. Lepp has been a solid voice in photography for decades.

By the way, if you go the Nikon route and in-camera focus stack acquisition is important to you--which seems the case--then disregard my earlier advice to look at older Nikon macro lenses. For this, you want modern "AF-S" autofocus lenses. (The AF-D I named has autofocus, but in a form that is comparatively primitive to the current AF-S autofocus; the AI series were manual focus. In most circumstances, macro photographers are better off focusing manually, but in-camera focus stacking would be an exception.)

Also, as you are likely aware, a camera that will automatically shoot a focus stack should not be expected to process that focus stack. To do that well, you will want software such as Zerene Stacker or Helicon Focus. Photoshop will also stack focus, but in a pretty crude fashion.

--Chris S.

mfischbein
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Re: Help for a beginner - Photographing Jewellery

Post by mfischbein »

Chris
Thanks again for more very useful info

Milt

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