Is it some kind of microscope?

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Adalbert
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Adalbert »

Hello everybody,

I would like to ask you whether this "thing" can pass as a microscope in the general sense:
M_TPnd_WS1200_TPc_SC1024_Q87.jpg
1.) microscope - objective
2.) tube - lens
3.) eye - piece
4.) object - table
5.) cross - table
6.) condenser
7.) fine - drive
8.) filter - holder
9.) photo – tube

Best,
ADi

Scarodactyl
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Scarodactyl »

Sure, though if it doesn't have a viewing eyepiece it's a fancy digital microscope.

ray_parkhurst
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by ray_parkhurst »

Most "microscopes" have substage (transmitted) lighting for viewing slides, so from that perspective this is not one since it can only do incident (reflected) lighting.

edited to add: beautiful system, though it would benefit from an idler rail for stability
further edit: love the Harley clamps. I have been using them recently as well

Pau
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Pau »

I would qualify it as a custom arranged microscope: both magnification, resolution and main optics -the objective- are typical of microscopes.

For Nikon Small World Competition people it also is:
"The homemade microscope is a new and growing sector of the contest and we are excited to collect and judge these images"
But for placing the images taken with it at photomacrography.net right forum this is a macro rig* and the images it produces will be placed at our Technical and Studio Photography -- Macro and Close-up forum

so...you're a microscopist or you aren't depending of the context :D

* and a very nice one!
Pau

Scarodactyl
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Scarodactyl »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:19 am
Most "microscopes" have substage (transmitted) lighting for viewing slides, so from that perspective this is not one since it can only do incident (reflected) lighting.
Metallurgical microscopes are still microscopes :(

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viktor j nilsson
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by viktor j nilsson »

Pau wrote: For Nikon Small World Competition people it also is:
"The homemade microscope is a new and growing sector of the contest and we are excited to collect and judge these images"
Where did you find this quote? I remember reading something similar in previous years, but when I check the current rules, I can't find anything like it:
https://enter.nikonsmallworld.com/small-world/rules/

This is the most relevant rules:
-Images must be taken by Entrant using a light microscope. Images taken with an electron or any other microscope(s) that do not capture imagery using optical light technology are not eligible.
-Macro photography is not eligible.
I still think that it would be perfectly fine to submit images taken with the rig above, though.

Adalbert
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Scarodactyl,
Sure, though if it doesn't have a viewing eyepiece it's a fancy digital microscope.
Yes, a magnifying glass is used as an eyepiece, namely this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402784016232?h ... Sw5PNgbulv
Best, ADi

Adalbert
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Ray_parkhurst,
Most "microscopes" have substage (transmitted) lighting for viewing slides
For this reason I use the the Köhler from Lomo:
LOMO_TPnd_WS1024_TPc_Q97.jpg
Best, ADi

Adalbert
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Pau,
Yes, I would like to know if I may take part in the Nikon competition :-)
Best, ADi

Adalbert
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Viktor j nilsson,
I still think that it would be perfectly fine to submit images taken with the rig above, though.
I think so too.
No particular brand of microscope is required.
Then it seems that this one made by ADi can be accepted :-)
Best, ADi

Scarodactyl
Posts: 717
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:26 am

Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Scarodactyl »

Adalbert wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:08 pm
Hello Scarodactyl,
Sure, though if it doesn't have a viewing eyepiece it's a fancy digital microscope.
Yes, a magnifying glass is used as an eyepiece, namely this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/402784016232?h ... Sw5PNgbulv
Best, ADi
It's basically set up much like a toolmaker's or measuring microscope then, like the Nikon mm-200: one objective, one eyepiece, optionally a camera too. They also make various digital microscopes with no eyepieces of course (just look at the cs-20 or the shuttlepix, whatever that was)
I would guess their macro/micro division is really more about having a fixed stand and a microscope objective rather than a macro lens on a handheld camera.

rjlittlefield
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by rjlittlefield »

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:04 pm
Pau wrote: For Nikon Small World Competition people it also is:
"The homemade microscope is a new and growing sector of the contest and we are excited to collect and judge these images"
Where did you find this quote?
That was a personal communication from 2016, reported by Chris S. HERE.

I guess the current rules are intended to convey a general concept, while leaving the competition officials some wiggle room to make ad hoc decisions.

It's tempting to think they could just say something like "images must be made using light, with subjects no larger than <specified size>". But then that would rule out some fancy new research scope that manages to capture a huge field at high resolution. Writing formal rules that have just the right effect is hard; leaving some wiggle room is much easier and probably better for viewers of the competition.

--Rik

ray_parkhurst
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by ray_parkhurst »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:03 am
ray_parkhurst wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:19 am
Most "microscopes" have substage (transmitted) lighting for viewing slides, so from that perspective this is not one since it can only do incident (reflected) lighting.
Metallurgical microscopes are still microscopes :(
That is true for its specific purpose, but not in the "general sense" asked by the OP.

Chris S.
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Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Chris S. »

Adalbert wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:18 pm
. . . I would like to know if I may take part in the Nikon competition :-)
rjlittlefield wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:48 pm
viktor j nilsson wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:04 pm
Pau wrote: For Nikon Small World Competition people it also is:
Where did you find this quote?
That was a personal communication from 2016, reported by Chris S. HERE.
Adi,

I think you can safely consider your rig a "home-made microscope" for the Nikon Small World competition.

A few years ago, I contacted Nikon Small World official Eric Clark to ask whether images from our home-made microscopes--which of course we call "macro rigs" here for reasons that work for us--are eligible in the Nikon competition. As an example, I shared posts detailing my macro rig, the Bratcam. He confirmed that for the purposes of Nikon Small World, the Bratcam is a home-made microscope, and images made with it are eligible for entry.

He added: "The homemade microscope is a new and growing sector of the contest and we are excited to collect and judge these images." I took this as an endorsement that images from rigs like yours and mine are not only permitted, but very welcome.

It may also be worth mentioning that before I asked this question, it seemed obvious that a considerable number of Nikon honorees across various years had already been making their images with home-made microscopes. Clearly, images from systems like ours had been accepted whether competition officials realized it or not.

Looking just now at the "Guidelines and Restrictions" for the competition, I don't see any obvious changes from when this communication took place, so would conclude that the answer I received is still in force.

Good luck, Adi! :D

--Chris S.

PS--In another communication, I checked with Eric Clark to make sure that our Administrators Appreciation Awards would not disqualify an image from Nikon Small World entry. He confirmed that our awards do no such thing.

Adalbert
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Re: Is it some kind of microscope?

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Chris,
Many, many thanks!
Best,
ADi

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