8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

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RobertOToole
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8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

PM-New-HR4-fullsize-8x-Green-wafer-stack-Qioptiq-Mag-x-8x-www-Closeuphotography-com-.jpg
100% View 7.68x mag 1024px center crop
Qioptiq mag.x LD Plan Apo 8x/0.32
Rodenstock APO-Gerogon 9/240 Process Lens
Sony α7R IV (model ILCE-7RM4)
4 Image Pixel Shift Mode
Adobe PS CC + PixelShift2DNG

So this is what an HR objective + 4 image Pixel Shift mode looks like, I'm happy with it. Spend the last few days shooting lots of test images with the mag8x since it has to go back next week, Qioptiq already extended the loan 2 weeks and I'm still out of time! Really happy with the results so far. No issues at all with the α7R IV, so far so good. Will update my site once the mag.x goes back.

It's also interesting to note that a $50 process lens, designed for 1x at f/22 ( full range is 1:5 to 1:1) is one of my very best tube lenses! :shock: #-o

Before I made this image I also ran the Mituyoto M Plan 7.5x with the mag8x pushed down to match. One issue is that the Qioptiq System 125 uses a 250mm TL FL, so getting it to match the Mitutoyo perfectly is not going to happen unless someone knows of a good 235mm tube lens or a zoom tube lens :-k

Ran a 16 image Pixel Shift stack of 10 or 12 images yesterday and accidentally reformatted before I downloaded. I won't do that again! #-o :shock:


Questions and comments welcome.

Best,

Robert

Scarodactyl
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by Scarodactyl »

Looks great to me! It had better at 16k, but in optics that certainly doesn't always follow. I'm glad you're getting to put it through its paces, and really curious how these other tests will turn out (though I think I can guess at the gist).

RobertOToole
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:03 pm
Looks great to me! It had better at 16k, but in optics that certainly doesn't always follow. I'm glad you're getting to put it through its paces, and really curious how these other tests will turn out (though I think I can guess at the gist).
Yes. The Sony Pixel Shift Multi Shoot (PSMS) modes are different.

On the Sony α7R IV 4 the 16-image Pixel Shift Multi Shoot (16PSMS) 240MP images are bigger spatially, 60 MP vs 240 MP, so would be an advantage for printing, but they aren't really any sharper on a monitor when compared to 4-image Pixel Shift Multi Shoot (4PSMS) 60MP images.

The main gain with either Pixel Shift Multi Shoot mode, 4 or 16, is at least for me, higher color resolution and lack of demosaicing (or de-bayering) artifacts like false color and moiré, and less noise and more dynamic range. Mostly since there is no need for demosaicing (or de-bayering).

With PSMS there is a 1 EV reduction is noise, equiv. to giving it one more stop light, compared to non-PSMS images.
Best,

Robert

RobertOToole
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:06 pm

Ran a 16 image Pixel Shift stack of 10 or 12 images yesterday and accidentally reformatted before I downloaded. I won't do that again! #-o :shock:
Just tried to run another 16 image pixel shift stack but this time I forgot to put fresh batteries in the flashes so images 8-16 in each image series are 2 stops too dark.

#-o

Time for a break.

Will try it again in a few hours, maybe its time for a 20 minute nap :D

Best,

Robert

Lou Jost
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by Lou Jost »

"Will try it again in a few hours, maybe its time for a 20 minute nap"

That usually works for me!

RobertOToole
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

Lou Jost wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:05 pm
"Will try it again in a few hours, maybe its time for a 20 minute nap"

That usually works for me!
Hi Lou,

You know somehow I managed to screw up two more 16-shot HR stacks when I got back to work, but eventually I got a good one with fresh batteries and synced flash. Came out nicely.

Also shot a quick stack in FF to check full frame corners after Chris R asked me about it. Glad to report the 8x mag.x w/ 238mm TL, so not quite 8x still, covers FF at about 95%+. Right to the very edge. It had me fooled since I mistook field roll off for image circle size. I just needed a deeper stack. It might actually cover FF with a 250mm + lens I think.

Wonder if I should reverse the APO-Gerogon for better corners? I thought it was a symmetrical lens so I didn't bother!

RobertOToole
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:14 pm
......I thought it was a symmetrical lens so I didn't bother!
The tube lens used for the sample is a Rodenstock APO-Gerogon and it according to Rodenstock it is symmetrical. They were designed to be used in reduction or mag without having to remove the lens to reverse it. Range was given from 1:3 to 3:1.

That said, since I don't trust camera manufacturers, I should still double check the performance in reverse. :-k

Lou Jost
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by Lou Jost »

"It might actually cover FF with a 250mm + lens I think....Wonder if I should reverse the APO-Gerogon for better corners? I thought it was a symmetrical lens so I didn't bother!"

I have just the tube lens for you. The Mamiya 250mm Apo-Sekor. This is a superb lens, corrected even into the infrared. Because it is made for a huge medium format image circle, this tube lens is never the limiting factor on image circle size when used on FF.

RobertOToole
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

Lou Jost wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:48 pm
"It might actually cover FF with a 250mm + lens I think....Wonder if I should reverse the APO-Gerogon for better corners? I thought it was a symmetrical lens so I didn't bother!"

I have just the tube lens for you. The Mamiya 250mm Apo-Sekor. This is a superb lens, corrected even into the infrared. Because it is made for a huge medium format image circle, this tube lens is never the limiting factor on image circle size when used on FF.
Sounds interesting Lou. Whats the drawback? Shutter in the lens?

Best,

Robert

Lou Jost
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by Lou Jost »

No drawbacks except that no shifting adapter exists, so you can't use sensor shifting to stack-and-stitch (unless you are willing to fit the lens on the inside of a view camera; this works well). It's an excellent lens, especially when I need to make full-spectrum pictures that focus IR and visible light in the same plane. The shutter can be kept open. Its big sisters the 360mm and 500mm are sometimes used in astrophotography. These lenses used to be $10000+ but are now under 1000.

These are much easier to use than Mamiya's rangefinder lenses for its Mamiya 6 and 7 cameras.

RobertOToole
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

Lou Jost wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:42 pm
No drawbacks except that no shifting adapter exists, so you can't use sensor shifting to stack-and-stitch (unless you are willing to fit the lens on the inside of a view camera; this works well). It's an excellent lens, especially when I need to make full-spectrum pictures that focus IR and visible light in the same plane. The shutter can be kept open. Its big sisters the 360mm and 500mm are sometimes used in astrophotography. These lenses used to be $10000+ but are now under 1000.

These are much easier to use than Mamiya's rangefinder lenses for its Mamiya 6 and 7 cameras.

Great tip Lou, thanks. I have a feeling you've told me about this lens already, I think I just forgot about it maybe.

Best,

Robert

chris_ma
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by chris_ma »

RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:32 pm
With PSMS there is a 1 EV reduction is noise, equiv. to giving it one more stop light, compared to non-PSMS images.
yeah that's another nice side effect - with the S1R 8 shot PS one gets about 2EV better noise performance and thus also 2 stops more dynamic range.

interesting that you can use the A7R IV with flash, I guess you can set a delay?
with the S1R I havent found a way to do that, but I use continuous lighting anyway, which also avoids the recharge between captures.
chris

Lou Jost
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by Lou Jost »

Robert, the results with the Mamiya 250mm lens do depend on the objective used. With some objectives it shows a slight, mostly correctable red fringe.

An even better choice would be the famous Zeiss/Hasselblad 250mm Superachromat. This can't add a red fringe, because it is a lens designed for space applications that explicitly required perfect correction across the IR and visible spectrum. But this is expensive and I have not tried it yet. I have one sitting in the US waiting for me, and I'll pick it up when it is once again safe to travel. The 350mm version is apparently corrected also into the UV! But that one, made with very exotic materials, costs a fortune, far beyond my means.

dmillard
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by dmillard »

RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:34 pm
RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:14 pm
......I thought it was a symmetrical lens so I didn't bother!
The tube lens used for the sample is a Rodenstock APO-Gerogon and it according to Rodenstock it is symmetrical. They were designed to be used in reduction or mag without having to remove the lens to reverse it. Range was given from 1:3 to 3:1.

That said, since I don't trust camera manufacturers, I should still double check the performance in reverse. :-k
Hello Robert,

Very impressive image!
You may already have it, but I just sent you a pdf of some Rodenstock literature about the Graphigon/Gerogon process lenses.

Best regards,
David

RobertOToole
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Re: 8x HR NA 0.32 + α7R IV 4 Image Pixel Shift Mode

Post by RobertOToole »

chris_ma wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:53 am
RobertOToole wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:32 pm
With PSMS there is a 1 EV reduction is noise, equiv. to giving it one more stop light, compared to non-PSMS images.
yeah that's another nice side effect - with the S1R 8 shot PS one gets about 2EV better noise performance and thus also 2 stops more dynamic range.

interesting that you can use the A7R IV with flash, I guess you can set a delay?
with the S1R I havent found a way to do that, but I use continuous lighting anyway, which also avoids the recharge between captures.
Hi Chris,

Yes, the α7R IV 4 automatically goes into full electronic shutter when you enable Pixel Shift Multi Shoot (PSMS) and it will trigger flash just fine. Only downside is the shutter drops to 1/8th due to the synch with the electronic shutter so you have to watch ambient to avoid ghosting.

The dynamic range in pixel shift mode is really nice in practice, I never really appreciated until the last couple of days.

Best,

Robert

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