EOS 90D vs EOS M6 mkII vs others, suggestions please

[seta666]

Hello,

I have been away from the forum for ages; I had a long (maybe way too long) break away from macrophotography.

I want to update some of my gear, I am still stuck with a Sony NEX-5N; it never could fully replace the 5D mkII.

I had an A7 but these days I prefer to use an APS-C camera, specially the DCR-250 Mitu´s combo. I also had a EOS M3 I use for underwater photography but unfortunately the electronic shutter was not completely silent, there was some small vibration and made it useless for continuos lighting

Played with a Sony a5100 but no IR remote was a no go.

I prefer an APS-C camera rather than a full frame one, I have been thinking of either the EOS 90D or the EOS M6II

I like the size and weight of the EOS M6 mk2 better plus I do not need the EOS 90D viewfinder, mirror etc..but I do not know if is the right choice

Does any one know if they both offer completely silent (no vibration at all) EFSC? I think the M6 mkII has electronic shutter option and the 90D EFSC and Electronic shutter options. Does the 90D mirror stay up when in liveview or goes up and down between shots?

The only thing I do not like about the Canon´s is the Low DR, I do not think they have completely fix this yet.

I am also open to other recommendations ( a6400, a6500, etc), basically I am looking for :

- Zero vibration EFSC
- 20mpx plus
- Good DR preferred
- Computer tethering preferred
- IR remote, both IR plus cable remote preferred
- Flash Hot Shoe
- Touchscreen, one of the best features in the NEX-5N

Regards
Javier

[Adalbert]

Hello Javier,

I have 6D, M3 and M6 Mark 2.

The M6M2 with the internal FB and full electronic shutter is really nice.
I have taken over 500 000 shots but have not used the mechanical shutter yet.
With the full electronic shutter I can take about 2000 photos on one battery.

When I flash with the full electronic shutter,
the exposure time has to be longer than 1/20 s
because of the slow speed of reading the data from the chip
(SONY A1 should be better :-)

Instead of IR control, it has Bluetooth control (and wired).

Best,
ADi

[seta666]

Thanks, I would prefer it had IR remote to use the stackshot universal IR remote, but I guess I could modify a cable..
I have no problem using longer exposures with flash

[RobertOToole]

Hi Javier,

Good to see you posting again, welcome back!

......

I am also open to other recommendations ( a6400, a6500, etc), basically I am looking for :

- Zero vibration EFSC
- 20mpx plus
- Good DR preferred
- Computer tethering preferred
- IR remote, both IR plus cable remote preferred
- Flash Hot Shoe
- Touchscreen, one of the best features in the NEX-5N

Regards
Javier

My ideas are to go from a Sony A6300 to a Sony A7RIV for occasional full frame pixel shift mode but using the 24 MP APS-C crop mode most of the time. I think it be ideal for me, FF and 24 MP APS-C in one camera with pixel shift. The prices are down to $2800 USD new for the R IV. A close second would be the the A7R III for only $2100 USD.

I gave up on Canon a long time ago and would never go back. The two biggest problems were lagging sensor technology, DR, WB fluctuations when using flash with stacks and my 80D (or was it 70D) had some internal reflections inside the mirror box (both the WB and flare issues were known a few years ago).

Best,

Robert

[klevin]

About 16 months ago I bought a M6ii. I already had a 70D. Within months I sold my 70D and most of its lenses because for non-macro work, the m6ii is so much lighter and easier to take on walks.

For macro, it's a dream. I do most of my shooting with a 100mm L macro with tripod collar. Works beautifully. Focus peaking is a godsend, as is in-camera focus bracketing/stacking.

Since macro shooting is often done from awkward positions, I've been using the back screen with my 70D for years, so I find no need for the m6ii EVF, which I have.

Any talk of Canon vs Sony sensors is a flight to theory in my book, since my Canon camera sensors have performed well for years. With macro, you normally have so much control over your shooting, especially lighting, that any discussion of high iso noise or sensor latitude is irrelevant in my book.

Did I mention that Canon's menus are pretty logical? It's easy and fast to get to focus bracketing settings, for instance. I've never used Sony, but I hear their menus are a piece of work. Just saying....

[RobertOToole]

..............

Any talk of Canon vs Sony sensors is a flight to theory in my book, since my Canon camera sensors have performed well for years. With macro, you normally have so much control over your shooting, especially lighting, that any discussion of high iso noise or sensor latitude is irrelevant in my book.

..............

Before I get to my reply, I should mention that I am a professional photographer with over 15 years of professional experience (that is wildlife photography providing 100% of my income) using Canon, Nikon, and now Sony, I've owned about every Canon body since the 30D (3.0 MP DSLR) to the 1DX, 1DX II, 20D, 40D, 50D, 70D, 80D and every body in between, including 5D, 5D II, 5D III, 5D IV, EOS-1 D, 1 D MKII, 1D MKIII, 1DS, 1DS MKII, 1DS MKIII and more up to the 90D) usually at least two at a time, sometimes 4 bodies at a time . So I'm just trying to help Photomacrography.net readers, so please understand my intentions here are only the best.

That said, there is no way around the fact that there is big difference between Canon and Sony/Nikon when it comes to sensor development, with the later Canon cameras closing the gap quite a bit.

The biggest advantage of the Sony/Nikon sensor design is ISO-invariance. Why is this important? The sensor uses a dual gain design, ISO 64 and ISO 400, so in low light situations, you can use the shutter speed and aperture settings of a high ISO exposure, but keep the camera set to ISO 400 (the ISO step) to protect highlights. When you lighten the images later on the computer, the images won't be any noticeably noisier than if you shot at high ISO. With an older type sensor (anything before the 1DX II, 5D MKIV, and others) lightening the images later on the computer will add noise. This means what Canon sensors work best using the ETTR (expose to the right) exposure method to limit shadow noise (anything before the 1DX II, 5D MKIV, and others). With most, not all Nikon/Sony you can use ETTL (expose to the left) exposure method for best results, best being the most dynamic range and lowest noise.

A good example of ISO-variant sensor camera vs ISO-invariant sensor camera:

The Canon EOS R5 vs Nikon D7200 (from the excellent https://www.photonstophotos.net/ website)

If anyone is curious to learn more, my brief explanation is very general, you can google ISO-Invariance or follow these links:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59993612

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/74505 ... ance-study

http://www.strollswithmydog.com/informa ... invariant/

Hope this helps.

Best,

Robert

[seta666]

Sensor technology is important to some extent, but at the end lighting technique is far more important. Anytime I think Canon sensors are rubbish I just have to give a quick look to any of Charles Kreb´s images to see I am completely wrong.

When I sold my EOS 5D mkII (it was aging, with some dead pixels) I moved to an APS-C NEX-5N, on paper DR on the Sony was superior to that of the Canon and DXOmark results were pretty similar. Well that Canon FF sensor could cope very well with the low CRI of my Ikea Jansös while I never liked the colours I was getting with the Sony. Once I understood the CRI problem it was all good again, my next priority is finding some good CRI 95-98 5600K LED COBs

I decided to switch to APS-C for several reasons and I will not go back to FF unless I am asked to make very high resolutio0n images to be printed in billboards (and with the viewing distance for those even 24mpx would be more than enough). Even 16mpx was good enough for high quality 90x60cm prints

Yesterday I saw an old stock A5100 and bought it again(350€ with kit lens which I will probably sell), also got a 7€ cable remote I will modify with RCA connectors so I can use both the remote and the DIY automatic rail controller I own; I would have preferred it had IR remote but I can not have everything. The biggest con on the A5100 is lack of flash hot shoe but my rail controller has a flash out so I am fine

I already own many sony accessories (Including a metabones) so for me to buy now a Canon also means having to buy new accessories, go around with two battery chargers etc.

I also do not like buying cameras with features I am not going to use, which end adding costs like viewfinder, advanced focus system or 4K video. A 24mpx APS-C sensor with near 5DmkII performance is more than enough for my needs. None of my Sonys has proper computer tethering but I enjoy working with the touch screen, specially moving the image around and selecting a spot to zoom in.
At the end there are things I like a lot in the sonys and things I hate too, same happened to me with the 5D mkII or would happen with any other camera.

[Adalbert]

Hello everybody,
I think that the camera does not play the decisive role.
The most important thing is the lens and its resolution and in the best case with the good CA correction.
Everything else can be easily solved by the software.
But the internal focus bracketing is very usable, so the M6M2 is currently the best APSC camera for the focus stacking.
OK, for very old people over 90, the 90D would also be OK :-)
Best,
ADi

[chris_ma]

I find that is you have one really weak link in your setup, then the others don't matter so much.
got a really poor lens? then the camera doesn't matter a lot
got serious vibration problems? same
got poor lighting? dito
got a really poor camera? then optimising the rest wont help much either.

so the trick is to balance all elements to reach the expectations.
it's quite easy to reach decent results with todays technology, but for top end results each part needs to be carefully optimised.

[seta666]

Everything else can be easily solved by the software.

Poor lighting can not be solved in software, and most of pictures I end up discarding are due too poor lighting

But the internal focus bracketing is very usable, so the M6M2 is currently the best APSC camera for the focus stacking.

I do not use any AF lenses, so that is a feature I do not need

[seta666]

I find that is you have one really weak link in your setup, then the others don't matter so much.

The weakest link in my set up is myself, with some subjects I work ok and with others no matter what I do I keep getting poor results.
I have more lenses than I need, in fact I sold quite a few that were overlapping. Sometimes less gear is best

One thing I would like to add some day to my set up is good quality microscope ...maybe one day

[RobertOToole]

The weakest link in my set up is myself, ........
I have more lenses than I need, in fact I sold quite a few that were overlapping. Sometimes less gear is best

It seems like we have the same issue Javier, thanks for that

I've spent hours and hours and more hours giving advice in presentations and slideshows and doing small group and one-on-one training in-the-field, both macro and wildlife photography, and I always stress this point every chance I get.

99% of photographers blame their equipment for poor results, usually AF or AE, instead of accepting blame.

Most would rather buy a new body rather than to master the one they already have, which is most cases is fine enough already.

Best,

[Yousef Alhabshi]

Happy to see you back Again Javier

Welcome back

[seta666]

Thank's Yousef,

Happy to see you around too, it was meant to be just a little break and at the end years have past.

We will see if this time it lasts..

[quenoteam]

Sé que no me conoces, pero me he alegrado mucho de saber que vuelves a la microfotografía.

Tus fotos y tus reportajes de hace tantos años, junto a las de tu tocayo, el otro Javier (Replinger) hicieron que me dedicara en cuerpo y alma a esta técnica.

Así que tienes mi admiración y mi agradecimiento eterno, para mi sois los auténticos pioneros en España de esta especialidad.

Por cierto que yo trabajo con una Canon EOS 50D y una 6D en modo Live View y "modo silencioso" (primera cortinilla electrónica) con ambas, y no echo en falta nada. Pienso que la cámara no es tan importante.

Un saludo!

soy Javier Rupérez
http://www.javier-ruperez.com