What the @&$% objective get

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Scarodactyl
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:26 am

What the @&$% objective get

Post by Scarodactyl »

Last week I spotted a mitutoyo 20x objective for sale at a reasonable price. The glass looked clean but the styling was strange, with a sharp knurl on the outside rather than fluting and a slightly odd label I'd never seen before. So, maybe one from the very beginning of the line in the 80s when style ideas were different, but heck it would be worth a shot to get it and test it--I'm stuck at home anyway and gotta amuse myself somehow. If I can get a deal on one because it looks odd but performs fine I'll take it, anything to make my nosepiece a little more unique. So I made an offer and it was accepted.
But that weird label was bugging me a bit. It didn't say 20x/0.42, it say f20/0.42
Could it be...f=20?
So I did a bit of google image searching to see if I could find another mitutoyo objective with a sharp knurl. And I did, but it looked like they only make one model with that styling:
Image
After a bit of staring I started to notice the objective I bought did look a bit unusually fat in the photos. The labeling and color stripe was different, but the shell was the same, with those distinctive tapers.
Anyway I figured I should just wait and see, and today it came in. Even before I opened the package I knew it must be something unusual because it's heavy, much heavier than a normal m plan apo. And in the hand it's massive, though the picture doesn't quite convey it:
Image
I popped it onto my microscope and had a look. It is indeed a 10x, and looks to perform really well! Beautiful corners on aps-c, and switching my mag changer to 2x yielded a beautifully bright, crisp clear image at 20x as well, not the softer and dimmer results I am used to with any given m plan apo. So, uh. Wow!

Anyway, sorry for the dramatics--this is an objective I never expected to see in person, much less to own.

One odd feature--I actually saw a hint of edge vignetting at 1x on aps-c, though I am not sure it is inherent to the objective. It didn't grip the nikon m26 threads too well and only went on a turn or so (unlike my normal m plan apos) so it may have been slightly crooked, or might have been an issue with my epi illuminator. Honestly I'd liked to have tested it a bit more but I was so nervous with it only partially threaded on that I just had to get it back off and into an objective case. I suppose there's a chance this isn't the normal 10x hr but some variant, but somehow I don't think so--if it is it's not documented anywhere I can find.

RobertOToole
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by RobertOToole »

Scarodactyl wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:06 pm
Last week I spotted a mitutoyo 20x objective for sale at a reasonable price. The glass looked clean but the styling was strange, with a sharp knurl on the outside rather than fluting and a slightly odd label I'd never seen before.
I did see this auction and I disregarded it thinking it was a knock off or copy of a Mitutoyo. :shock:

Looks like you scored a nice find, congrats, keep us updated!

Should add that FYI for most people, Mitutoyo M Plans are f=20mm for the 10x and f=10mm for the 20x M Plan. So it looks like this objective a 10x HR ($8000 from Edmund Optics) with a custom color stripe and labeling on the barrel. A once in a lifetime find! =D> :D

Best,

Robert

abednego1995
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by abednego1995 »

Great find! I wasn't aware of that label before.
btw, are these HR objectives reaching some kind of industry-wide end of life replacements? They're much more "affordable" than they used to be in numbers and price...
IMG_2054.jpg
well, I only needed one...but two is better!

Cheers,
John

RobertOToole
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by RobertOToole »

abednego1995 wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:08 pm
Great find! I wasn't aware of that label before.
btw, are these HR objectives reaching some kind of industry-wide end of life replacements? They're much more "affordable" than they used to be in numbers and price...

IMG_2054.jpg
well, I only needed one...but two is better!

Cheers,
John

After being on the receiving end of more than my share of bad Mitutoyo objectives bought on the used market, I would think a while before spending HR money on a used objective made by Mitutoyo.

The 20x are notorious for have inner element issues even new-in-the box condition.

HR objectives surely can't be less fragile than a normal M Plan 10x or 20x.

Paypal took 2+ months to credit me $1000+ for a simple not as described return shipment a few months ago.

I've received Mitutoyo objective sets that arrived loose, rolling around in a box, I would hate to see 2 HR 10x Mitutoyos arrive that way :shock:

That said if I could find one for $499 I might risk it. :D

Best,

Robert

abednego1995
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by abednego1995 »

Lol, I’m sure you’ve seen the extreme spectrum of damaged objectives. The right one was NIB, the left with slight usage. I guess I was lucky with these:-)

Scarodactyl
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by Scarodactyl »

Maybe not as lucky as me, given the lack of provenance on mine. It was packed OK but not amazing too. I was definitely worried it might be bad but so far it seems really nice. That said I haven't actually looked at my quick test photos yet beyond zooming in on the corners on my camera screen, and I need to take comparison shots with my 10x and 20x. Maybe the sharp knurls diffuse negative microscopial energies. I don't know if I'll be able to justify keeping it though, since I shoot on a microscope on aps-c which probably isn't squeezing enough IQ benefit out vs just using my 10x and 20x. I'm also nervous just holding it which is not ideal.

Scarodactyl
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:26 am

Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by Scarodactyl »

Test result:
The vignetting (properly edge shading) is in my microscope, not the objective. Not sure what's up but it skews things.
I accidentally nudged the wafer at some point between putting the hr lens away and taking the later photos. Also the wafer wasn't level because I was distracted while setting it up. There's a reason I leave these tests to the pros.
But it definitely outperforms my 10x at 10x, and in my even less well done test seems to match or outperform my 20x at 20x. I only have one pair of pictures, I tried to pick the very best area for my normal 10x and also bumped up brightness and contrast a bit, the HR just runs circles around it. These crops aren't quite in the same area of the lens but whatever, you want a professional test ask a pro. It really feels like using an 8000 dollar or so lens.
Attachments
HR mitutoyo 10x
HR mitutoyo 10x
Normal mitutoyo 10x
Normal mitutoyo 10x

abednego1995
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by abednego1995 »

Yup, you get the Sweaty Palm Syndrome handling these :-)

Nice demonstration of NA diff. Is that a ronchi grating??

Medwar
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:46 am

Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by Medwar »

Wow!
I am extremely interested in the 2 comparisons:

1)
10x 0.42 HR pushed up to 20x using 400mm tube lens
vs
20x 0.42

2)
10x 0.42 HR stopped down as close to 0.28 as possible using external iris, to gain the same DOF.
vs
10x 0.28

If you could do this, it could be one of the most interesting mitu tests ever made.

I suppose that 10x HR it may win in both scenarios.
Direct comparison with 10x 0.28 is not that interesting, because even the cheapest objective with NA 0.42 will outresolve 10x 0.28 just because of the NA.

Medwar
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:46 am

Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by Medwar »

And congratulations, seems like you are the only forum member owning this lens!

JKT
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by JKT »

An interesting - but mostly academic - question is are they as fragile as the other Mitus? For that price there might be some robustness built-in as well.

RobertOToole
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by RobertOToole »

JKT wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:19 am
An interesting - but mostly academic - question is are they as fragile as the other Mitus? For that price there might be some robustness built-in as well.
Hi JKT,

:-k

No doubt Mitutoyo would mention that as a selling point if an HR was shock-proof, but the question is why would a lab lens need to be shock-proof if the other objectives in the same line are not? There is no need.

Nikon includes the selling points: "Shock-proof and Dust-proof Design" for the MM series of objectives since they are designed to used in industrial environments.

Best,

Robert

Pau
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by Pau »

JKT wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:19 am
An interesting - but mostly academic - question is are they as fragile as the other Mitus? For that price there might be some robustness built-in as well.
Are you suggesting to drop the objective and post the results? :lol: :twisted:
Pau

JKT
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by JKT »

That question was aimed at the chances of getting a good one if one appears for sale. If the seller knows what he is selling, the price will likely be a bit much to test.

RobertOToole
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Re: What the @&$% objective get

Post by RobertOToole »

For people that spend a lot of time on the forum this is old news, and they've heard this story before but for new people I need to mention this again :D

I refuse to buy used Mitutoyo objectives on eBay since I've received more bad copies over the last years, than good copies. :shock:

Some of this is surely due to the way they are made, bad inner elements in a new-in-the-box-lens isn't normal.

Can I tell just one story? #-o

Bought a Mitutoyo FS-60 Finescope on eBay with the full set, 2x, 5x, 10x, 20x of Mitutoyo BD plans for an unheard of can't-pass-on-it-price (I'm embarrassed to even say the price). I told the seller to invoice me for $200-300 dollars extra, and would pay more, for professional packing to go the 2700 miles from the east coast to California. He ignored me and shipped a massive 80 lbs scope in a normal cardboard box, with only single walled sheets, made for 10-15 lbs max. :shock:

What happened?

The FS-60 arrived flipped upside down inside the box, (the box disintegrated) and the XY stage and Mitutoyo micrometers and objectives were all loose rolling around together at what was now the bottom of what used to be the top of the box. I would show pictures but they are too gruesome to share here. #-o

I have to laugh now even though damaged fine optics are a tragedy but my point is a lot of, or most in my case, eBay sellers don't care about sensitive optics, they just want a pay day.

Please be careful out there {-X :lol:
Do-Not-Drop-Mitutoyo-Robert-OToole-Photography.jpg

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