MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

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lothman
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by lothman »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:35 pm
I have not used either the mjkzz ultra nor the stonemaster systems, but I can make some general comments regarding their construction that might be helpful.

The mjkzz ultra system is built around an industrial rail system. The system is not specified, but the picture shows something that looks like a THK/Misumi/NSK/HiWin type of linear guide rail. This type of rail is a significant improvement over mjkzz's own SR90P system, which uses just a single linear carriage rail having far less stability and precision than the linear guide type. The stonemaster system (based on their website photos) is similar to the mjkzz SR90P, with a single linear carriage, so pricing-wise and precision-wise the stonemaster should be compared to the SR90P, with the expectation that neither is as capable mechanically to the Ultra system.

Another option is to build your own system using surplus rails. Indeed that is the path I took, with THK linear guides, and can certainly shoot at 50x with no issues.
I was thinking exactly the same about the mjkzz ultra. The wider and longer base of those 4 ball carriages with the spindel right in the center should give a much more stable setup, than all those single carriage solutions.
I'm not sure whether a threaded spindle is fine for sub-µm steps, may be ballspindle would work better. But up to now there seem to be no complaints.

I also think a THK k2602B (B=2 carriages) and other parts of MKJZZ could also do the job at smaller invest.. In such a setup both carriages could be coupled (to distribute load and to minimise play), or the front be fixed carrying the lens and the back one to carry the camera for shifting of focal plane. This could be very versatile and stable at the same time. The large 2mm pitch of the KR26 could be overcome by an appropriate stepper and control.

ray_parkhurst
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by ray_parkhurst »

lothman wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:58 pm
ray_parkhurst wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:35 pm
Another option is to build your own system using surplus rails. Indeed that is the path I took, with THK linear guides, and can certainly shoot at 50x with no issues.
I was thinking exactly the same about the mjkzz ultra. The wider and longer base of those 4 ball carriages with the spindel right in the center should give a much more stable setup, than all those single carriage solutions.
I'm not sure whether a threaded spindle is fine for sub-µm steps, may be ballspindle would work better. But up to now there seem to be no complaints.

I also think a THK k2602B (B=2 carriages) and other parts of MKJZZ could also do the job at smaller invest.. In such a setup both carriages could be coupled (to distribute load and to minimise play), or the front be fixed carrying the lens and the back one to carry the camera for shifting of focal plane. This could be very versatile and stable at the same time. The large 2mm pitch of the KR26 could be overcome by an appropriate stepper and control.
The KR2001B also has 2 carriages, but only 1mm pitch, and is available in fairly long travel versions. However, I must say that I own both 2001B and 2602B but have never integrated either into systems. Reason is that the additional carriage significantly reduces the travel, and even at maximum separation (which would mean zero travel) the spacing is inadequate for the systems I've built recently which required very long stable platforms. Instead, I would recommend (and have been successful) using a KR2001A with long throw, and integrate this with an idler rail. This method has served me well for both vertical and horizontal systems, and even for enhancing stability of automated XY sytems.

Certainly the ball screw designs are far superior to either the preloaded brass or delrin dual-nut designs, but those designs can work in the kind of low-load designs most of us are working with.

Lou Jost
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by Lou Jost »

It appears that the entire camera/lens assembly is "resting" on the microscope bracket.
That's right. Super-easy, fast to change lenses, but perfectly sturdy. Sometimes I use rings that go through the hole in the stage support and can be locked down from above and below, making a very rigid assembly. But this is rarely necessary.

This system handles sub-micrometer step sizes easily, and wobbles much less than my rails.

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

dhmiller wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:47 am
The Stonemaster guy (Rudy??) won't ship to the US and wrote me a fairly nasty note when I asked if there was any way around that. Not very pleasant.
Not really able to mod a focusing block, so would need to purchase one ready to use on my system (built around WeMacro H/V stand). If anyone has one...
Hmmm, what kind of note? Sounds a bit unprofessional, it's fine if he doesn't want to deal with customers, shouldn't put them off though.

If he can't answer the question, I can. You can use a freight forwarding service. There's probably local German ones, you'll have to look into the reliability yourself. I use shipito, they have an Austrian warehouse. If you send there, chances are you'll eat a hefty VAT on top of local customs you'd be expected to pay once it leaves.

It's Germany > Austria (VAT!!!) > you (VAT equiv. if applicable)
If you find a local Germany one, the excessive VAT can be waived. I recommend finding a local one.

shrek
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by shrek »

shrek wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:06 am
Hello

Nice but very expensiv..1500€

jpierre
For Stone master

jp

dhmiller
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by dhmiller »

Hmmm, what kind of note?

The email said, in effect, to stop emailing him - he does not sell to the US. End of that story.

lothman
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by lothman »

dhmiller wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:03 am
The email said, in effect, to stop emailing him - he does not sell to the US. End of that story.
Probably the backside of the US Product Liability. Even if I would buy from them and ship it to you I could probably be sewed if you squeeze your finger.

dhmiller
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by dhmiller »

Here's the blurb on the MJZKK Xtreme Pro system. Still curious if anyone's used this with a 50 or 100x and what their experience was:
https://www.mjkzz.de/collections/focus- ... 9524925596

For those who are looking for the automated and motorized focus stacking rail with the smallest pitch in the world. We listened to our customers who wanted to go further than 1mm pitch!

The XTREME PRO rail was engineered by us specially for extreme macrophotography and is the only automated macro rail in the world for focus stacking with a lead screw pitch of 0,5 mm and a travel distance of 90 mm!

This gives you finer and more precise steps for supporting microscope objectives with magnifications up to 100X! The pitch is one of the most important value for focus stacking. The smaller the pitch, the smaller the possible minimum step size. Per definition (without using any motor controller) a pitch of 1 mm means that the camera moves 1 mm per full one turn of the motor. Our XTREME PRO rail moves the camera only 0,5 mm for each full turn of the motor.

Our stepper motor is able to step 400 times per turn and both controllers (IR and USB version) support micro steps up to 1/128. This results in 400 * 128 = 51,200 motor steps per turn.

With 0,5 mm pitch on our XTREME PRO rail each step moves the camera 0.0097 µm (0.0000097 mm). This small step is not measurable by us anymore, but tests with a 100X microscope objective from Mitutoyo (NA of 0,55) at 0.1 µm steps shows the exact and fine movement for each step. And even for such a high magnification like 100X the minimum step size is recommended to be between 0,3 and 0,4 µm.

Compared to the Ultra series that also supports very small step sizes for 100X microscope objectives, the XTREME series is for professionals who are looking for the best available solution on the market at a still affordable price. Compared to the Ultra Mini with a pitch of 1 mm and travel distance of 45 mm the XTREME PRO has 0,5 mm pitch and 90 mm travel distance.

It comes with the following:

1x New MJKZZ XTREME PRO macro rail with 0,5 mm pitch and 90 mm travel distance
1x Powered by 0.9 degree motor (400 steps/rev)
1x USB MJKZZ controller (Win 10 laptop required)
1x 65mm round Arca Swiss camera quick release system
1x 12V 5A power supply (EU-plug)
2x Black anodized aluminum boards (each 25cm long) with connectors
1x Camera shutter cable of your choice (see options)

dhmiller
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by dhmiller »

Probably the backside of the US Product Liability.
Maybe, but seemed like he just didn't want to be bothered. I'm looking elsewhere, in any case.

ray_parkhurst
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by ray_parkhurst »

dhmiller wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:48 am
Here's the blurb on the MJZKK Xtreme Pro system. Still curious if anyone's used this with a 50 or 100x and what their experience was:
https://www.mjkzz.de/collections/focus- ... 9524925596
Hmm, I did not see this rail before. It does not show up on the US mjkzz site, so my earlier response was assuming you were referring to the Ultra rail.

I am very impressed by this Xtreme Pro rail! mjkzz has used two linear rails instead of the single that is used in the SR90 rail (and seemingly on the stonemaster), and each rail has two carriages for better stability. The 0.5mm pitch is nice as well, though ultimately the details of how the drive nut mates with the screw is of extreme importance as to how well it will work for backlash, accuracy, load capability, etc. Still, the better stability of the dual rails with quad carriages is a big plus. Maybe I'll try integrating one into a system and see if it is better than an industrial rail. I'd still likely add an idler to improve stability under load though.

Scarodactyl
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by Scarodactyl »

If you want an adventure you can get a measurescope for a little less, especially after selling off unneeded components https://www.ebay.com/itm/223745774913
Attaching your gear would need a little improvisation, and you'd still need a micromate. But they're very stable (because they weigh a million pounds) and look great on a desk. And 50 or 100x is not a problem for the focus drive.

dhmiller
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by dhmiller »

If you want an adventure you can get a measurescope for a little less,

Thanks, but that would surpass my DIY skills (which are pretty minimal ;-))

dhmiller
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by dhmiller »

I am very impressed by this Xtreme Pro rail!

Thanks, Ray. I have recently acquired a 50x and so far have not gotten any decent images. But that is definitely user error and probably, to some extent, a hardware issue, so trying to find a good solution for both...

ray_parkhurst
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by ray_parkhurst »

dhmiller wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:20 pm
I am very impressed by this Xtreme Pro rail!

Thanks, Ray. I have recently acquired a 50x and so far have not gotten any decent images. But that is definitely user error and probably, to some extent, a hardware issue, so trying to find a good solution for both...
Quality of the rail is probably 5th (or lower) in my pareto of causes of poor images.

dhmiller
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Re: MJKZZ Extreme system and ...

Post by dhmiller »

Well I"m pretty much using the same practices I have used successfully for 5x - very stable platform, standalone building with concrete floor (no activity/vibrations of any kind - it's a barn on the property and I leave the building when starting the stack), Mirror Up, delays at every step to settle, electronic curtain/shutter (Nikon D850..), Rik's recommended prerun and other parameters, precision backlash calibration, etc. Often the controller doesn't return the motor to the start and end points I have set when I check it in Zerene, or it doesn't seem to finish the stack, leaving the job half or 3/4 done... Happy to hear any other suggestions for working in either H (Stackshot rail) or V (THK SKR20) modes... Feel free to go PM if you prefer...

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