Canon DSLR discounts

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physicsmajor
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Canon DSLR discounts

Post by physicsmajor »

The high-end Canon DSLRs are currently incredibly aggressively discounted. Canon has disclosed their intention to shift focus to mirrorless and their new R-series bodies and lenses seem to lead the pack. That has led to the most aggressive discounts I have ever seen on actual top-end equipment: the 5DS and 5DS/R (the latter without the antialias filter).

These bodies used to demand $3.5-3.8k but are now selling at $1.3k and $1.5k.

I currently shoot with a Nikon D7000 and have most of my glass in the Nikon F-mount. However, this is a decade old DSLR and I've been planning to upgrade. My intended path had been toward something like the D7500, which has 20.9 megapixels and in the APS-C frame has the rough equivalent of the D850 resolution and performance.

Then these deals came along.

I'd be curious about anyone's experience switching from Nikon to Canon. It seems at this point that Canon is likely to win the mirrorless generation of cameras, and while Nikon may hobble on in the DSLR space for a bit longer their Z-series offerings are not in the same ballpark. Also, the FTZ adapter on a Nikon is really limited in lens compatibility for any lens with a physical aperture ring or lacking an AF motor, whereas the Canon adapter is excellent. So it seems like my Nikon glass will be abandoned one way or the other.

In the context of this particular hobby, adapting to Canon EOS mount seems to be as simple as the price of a $40 Fotodiox adapter. That adapter also works with older lenses that have physical aperture control, though of course AF is a lost cause.

Am I missing anything? These deals seem to be among the best ever for basically top-tier DSLR bodies.

Edit: It does appear as if this may be academic, as most sources are now showing out of stock.

Macrero
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by Macrero »

The 5Ds and 5Ds R are 5 years old cameras now, the price drop is completely normal and not a bargain. Those are still very capable cameras with a few weaknesses, the bigger one for me is the quite poor DR for such high-end, high-res FF cameras. Note that the "R" do has a physical OLPF, but its effect on the sensor has been "cancelled".

Personally, I would not buy a DSLR. Not that you can't use a DSLR for macro/micro work, bur I find a mirrorless camera with fully e-shutter much more convenient.

Since you're using Nikon system, if you want a DSLR, I'd get rather a D810 than 5Ds R. But bear in mind the bizarre LiveView - EFCS implementation in this model, it requires 2 shutter actuations, one to reset the sensor and another to take the picture.

- Macrero
Last edited by Macrero on Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

chris_ma
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by chris_ma »

I agree.

first question should be do you really need 50MP?
then do you have lenses that are sharp enough, can you handle the data load etc?
are you ok with the mirror slap?
do you really want to invest in another system which probably wont get many updates?

it's certainly a good value, but personally I'd probably get a used D800, D800E or D810 instead or switch to mirrorless with a modern sensor.
chris

physicsmajor
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by physicsmajor »

I have a Minolta 5400 and the 7-element Scanner-Nikkor, which in their appropriate ranges I believe do resolve at this level. I also have a Mity 5x and 10x with CH-200 tube lens, which I believe also resolve at this level, though unsure if Mitutoyo lenses fill a full frame sensor. Within the Nikon space, I had been more interested in a D7500 because that body's APS-C pixel pitch is roughly equivalent to the pitch in the D850's full frame sensor. The D810 is actually a resolution decrease in the crop sensor region. I'd like to experiment with full frame, but anything less than about 40 Mpxl in a full frame I'd just go APS-C - which leaves me with basically the D850 and not much else in Nikon-land. The D850 is also now 3 years old.

Regarding mirrorless and lens compatibility: Nikon FTZ adapter doesn't work with lenses that have a physical aperture ring. This includes my 70-180mm Zoom Micro-Nikkor which I intend to keep using indefinitely. Ironically, the Canon adapters for Nikon F lenses do generally support the physical aperture ring. Neither autofocus with the Nikon lenses that required a focus motor in the camera body, which is everything before 2006 or so. So this plus other nicer Nikon glass appears to be getting left behind one way or another from the general photography perspective.

I run an 8 physical core Ryzen with 32GB RAM and have plenty of space, the data load doesn't concern me. If I did go DSLR, I'd want one with an electronic shutter option that I can trigger throughout a stack so the physical mirror/shutter happens only once. I think this is also generally a thing only on the D850 (maybe the D780 as well, but this is a loss in terms of resolution compared to my D7000 in the APS-C frame so not interested) in Nikon's lineup but I thought the 5DS had an electronic shutter option.

Thanks for the comment on the 'cancellation' of the AA filter in the 5DS-R - I thought it was removed, not some software attempt to counter it.

chris_ma
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by chris_ma »

physicsmajor wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:58 am
Thanks for the comment on the 'cancellation' of the AA filter in the 5DS-R - I thought it was removed, not some software attempt to counter it.
I haven't double checked, but I would imagine it's cancelled optically by a second filter in front of the OLPF glas. at least that's how it's done in the D800E and there it certainly gives a real increase over the D800.

but I see your points and if you like full frame and ultra high resolution, then the 5DS certainly is a very good deal at the reduced price if you don't mind the mirror. modern sensors will have quite a bit more dynamic range and less noise though.

plus, I don't think the M5400 will perform great in the corners (please somebody correct me if I'm wrong here)
chris

rjlittlefield
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by rjlittlefield »

physicsmajor wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:58 am
Thanks for the comment on the 'cancellation' of the AA filter in the 5DS-R - I thought it was removed, not some software attempt to counter it.
The cancellation is done optically, sort of a split-and-recombine trick. See https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/ph ... s-vs-5ds-r . It's not software.

Nikon did the same thing in their D800E versus D800, see discussion at https://photo.stackexchange.com/questio ... ing-anothe .

--Rik

Macrero
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by Macrero »

I suggested the D810 as a DSLR option since its current price is similar to the 5Ds R. I've used the D810 and loved it, except the double shutter actuation mess. Haven't used the 5Ds R, someone on here (I believe Ray) tried it and I recall he was not impressed with it.

If small pixel pitch is what you are looking for, there are quite a few options depending on your budget, if you decide to stick with DSLR or take the mirrorless route and if you choose APS or FF.

Regarding the Minolta, I no longer have it, but no, corners on FF are not perfect in its optimal range. The SN-7 is one of my fav low-mag lenses for MFT and APS, but it is just unusable on FF. The SN-14 do covers well.
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Bakwetu
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by Bakwetu »

When I finally got to upgrade our equipment at work a few years ago, I made sure we bought a 5dsr because of the high resolution, cancelling aa filter and since we already had Canon lenses, so I've been using it for a few years. 5ds and 5dsr have held their price for a very long time but has been on sale for quite a while, I think they are getting sold out and are not coming back. I would say that for only macro use, a 5ds/5dsr is still a good purchase if you can get it for those prices, but if you're going to use it for other type of photography coming in from another brand it is a bit more doubtful.

Mirror slap is not a problem for macro use if you use live view which is done with the mirror folded up already. Shutter vibration can be an issue though at higher magnifications, but that can be fixed with settings in the camera and the Stackshot so there is a delay between the opening and taking of the photo, but I have not tried with a fully electronic shutter to compare. I really like the 50 megapixels, since I can have a decent overview and still zoom on details in in the same photo. Using full frame sensors is a bit limiting in what lenses you can use when doing macro, the 5X mitutoyo is a bit weaker at the edges on full frame f.x. The camera does have a 1.3X and a 1.6X crop setting but if you're shooting raw I think it is better to crop after the stacking.

I don't feel the DR is a problem when used for macro, but I guess it could be if you use it for general photography. The AF system was pretty decent when it was released, better than the Canon 5d mk3 but worse than 5d mk4 and the newer mirrorless ofc.

Lou Jost
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by Lou Jost »

I strongly second the move to mirrorless. No vibration, excellent live view, and no wear and tear. This week I took a hundred thousand pictures; if I had been using a DSLR, at this rate I would soon wear it out.

Best of all, you can re-use all your old glass except the newer focus-by-wire and electronic-aperture lenses. If the Nikon FTZ don't allow use of manual aperture even in stop-down mode, surely a third-party adapter would do that. But you could also go to Sony or Panasonic.
"the 5X mitutoyo is a bit weaker at the edges on full frame"
No, if you move up to FF you just need to increase the focal length of your tube lenses proportionately.

ray_parkhurst
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Re: Canon DSLR discounts

Post by ray_parkhurst »

I purchased the 5DSR twice and sent it back both times. Was hoping for an improved IQ vs my HRT2i but the performance was basically on-par. It has more MP, and I expected a tailor-made / much newer processing engine to perform better, but alas it was not the case. You're probably wondering "why did you buy it twice?" and all I can say is there were different circumstances for each purchase, and the camera did not live up to expectations either time. As I remember I got the cameras fairly cheap, not much more than what's being offered now.

I'm also now sick of mirrors. I don't need them, they make noise and vibrations, and force large register distances, so my next camera is going to be mirrorless. It is also going to have no AA filter, unilike the 5DSR.

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