Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

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Macro_Cosmos
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Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Hi all, I would like some help on DIC components. It has been a major headache trying to piece together a parts list. Olympus' cryptic manuals don't help. Turns out the U-UCD8 manual has a lot more information beyond "this is an expensive condenser and here's how to use it". This is going to be a long post, I like to explain things thoroughly rather than asking simple questions and expect people to understand what's in my mind.

I want to photograph diatoms, radiolaria, and the pond life critters around me. So transmitted DIC is the choice.
Here's my setup:
- Oly BX frame
- Tungsten halogen lamp
- U-D6RE
- U-AAC NA1.4 Aplanat condenser
- Objectives: 4x UplanFL, 10x UplanFL (UIS2), 20x UplanSApo (UIS2), 40x UplanApo oil iris, 100x UplanApo oil iris, 100x Ach ph3 oil
I plan on using the 20x, 40x and 100x for DIC.

Gathering up the information I've pieced together, here's the list.
One of these:
- U-DICT: Transmitted DIC module that goes into the nosepiece
- U-DICTS: Same as above, but apparently it can be adjusted? However there's no slot for a polariser, and it's not much different to above. Using this would require some extra hardware to hold a polariser, I don't want that mess.
- U-DICTHC, U-DICTHR: These are high contrast/high resolution. Very hard to find and likely extremely costly, never seen one offered.
So my choice would be the U-DICT.

This is required:
- U-ANT: Polariser that sits in the U-DICT. Can also be used for polarised light, I think?

Condenser:
- U-UCD8 or U-UCD8-2: Universal condenser with a round optics wheel.
My question is, what's the difference? For phase contrast, I have the U-PCD. There's one with -2 designated, same NA, I suppose the mechanics might be better...
I'll go with either one available. Finding one seems like an uphill battle.
- Polariser insert for the U-UCD8: This must be in tact with the condenser.
- U-TLO: Oil immersion condenser top lens
- U-TLD: According to the manual, I can get away with just the U-TLO. It's good for 20x and above. 40x and 100x, I do plan on doing double immersion.

Condenser optics:
- Phase contrast annulus: PH1 and PH3
- Darkfield stop
- Expensive Normarski prisms: U-ODIC20, U-ODIC40, U-ODIC100
These seem to be specific to the U-TLO. For the U-TLD, they aren't expected to work as well? This tells me that even with the 20x, the condenser should be oil immersed, or else why would there be a difference? UNLESS, the 20x they referred to in the manual is the NA0.8 oil immersion version... oh dear.

Gathering all these parts sounds like an absolute nightmare. Using a very fallacious classical formula (Objective NA + Condenser NA)/2, an oil immersion top lens sounds unnecessary now. I call it fallacious because using a 4x objective with an NA of 0.10 with an NA 1.4 condenser definitely does not yield 0.75 NA. It will actually give worse results!

The air condenser has an NA of 0.9, decent enough. This means for my 40x, I'll get just shy of 1.0 NA. For the 100x, an NA of 1.075 can be had. I plan on getting the UplanFL 100x, which yields an NA of 1.125. Using this condenser allows me to get the u-dpa20, u-dpa40 and u-dpa100 which is a lot cheaper and easier to find. To conclude from my understanding, DIC already trades a lot of resolution for the effect, so chasing an oil condenser might just be a fruitless endeavour. The oil condenser is also listed as an optional accessory, I can imagine how hard it will be to find one.

Only my 10x and 20x are UIS2, the rest are UIS objectives. I cannot find any comparisons between UIS2 specific Normarski prisms (ie U-DIC20) and UIS ones (ie U-DPA20).
Saw this on ebay: eBay item number:392065465377
Apparently it's a 40x prism "U-ODPO40S" designed for the oil top lens, what is with these model numbers though? O for oil condenser, DP for DIC prism, 40 is the mag and S for shift, second O for oil immersion lens? Can't be used, listed as "for U-DICTS" in the manual.

My reasoning behind getting the phase contrast annuli, darkfield stop, and oil top lens is rather simple. I would like to sell my Aplanat and phase condenser U-PCD, and stick to just one condenser. This might not be the best decision now. U-TLO is scarce, those prisms sound impossible to get. U-PCD has an NA of 1.25, the U-TLD is at 0.9. There's also no reason to sell the Aplanat condenser as I have Saul's kit which doesn't work with the U-PCD and definitely also doesn't work with the U-UCD8. Looks like I will have to deal with switching between 3 condensers.

Summary...
- U-UCD8 or "-2" version, with the polariser
- U-TLD, as U-TLO is hard to get and the prisms are hard to find
- U-DICT and U-ANT
- Preferably, darkfield, PH1 and PH3 annuli so I can sell the U-PCD
- U-DIC20 for 20x UIS2 objective, or U-DPA20 if there isn't a difference
- U-DPA40 and U-DPA100 for the UIS objectives

Is my understanding correct and does this list look right? What's a good place to get these parts? I can get the U-DICT and prisms with relative ease, but finding that pesky condenser has been an uphill battle. For the phase annulus and darkfield stop, it's probably easy to get them custom made out of thin aluminium, and anodised black. I just need to find models, maybe they are on thingyverse.

Thanks!

enricosavazzi
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by enricosavazzi »

First of all, in my experience the UIS DIC system is very sensitive to mismatches between objective and DIC prism. For example, on my system the UDP10 prism works well with the UPlanApo 10x 0.40 (from the UIS series) and poorly with the UPlanFl N 10x 0.30 (from the UIS2 series). My recommendation for DIC is to stick exactly with the compatible prisms, objectives and slider from the table in the U-UCD8 manual, not to stray away from the recommended combinations, and not to mix UIS and UIS2 components. It might be possible to make some combinations of UIS and UIS2 components to work, but it is not a given.

The U-UCDB condenser I use accepts five large inserts (DIC prisms, phase rings or DF ring). The U-UCD8 condenser uses five large inserts and three small ones. Finding the right combination of large and small inserts on eBay can be difficult. Most inserts on eBay seem to be of the large type. Since I use DIC with 10x, 20x, 40x and 100x objectives, my U-UCDB with U-TLD is already full (including one empty slot for no DIC). So I got a second U-UCDB with U-TLO, DF ring (which however does not work with U-TLO, so a problem here) and space for the U-ODP100 (which I did not buy yet). The UPlanFL 100x 1.30 Oil Iris objective should always be oiled to the slide, but the condenser can be used either oiled to the slide or not, and each combination requires a different DIC prism and a different top condenser lens. Hence my decision to get two U-UCDB condensers to be able to switch reasonably quickly between oil and air.

A lot of the Olympus DIC prisms, phase rings and DF rings on eBay are for use with other condensers and scopes, so you must be careful you choose the right ones. Some fit the BX 40 series scopes, some the inverted scopes, some the BX 50 series with universal condenser.

Most universal condensers come with the U-TLD top lens, while the U-TLO can be difficult to find. Usually a universal condenser comes with the right polarizer slider, so you rarely need to buy it separately.

All DIC sliders including the U-DICT are adjustable. You need the adjustment to properly use DIC, there is no way around it. The other sliders have an additional two-position adjustment, but normally you don't need it for transmitted DIC. The U-ANT analyzer is usually sold together with the U-DICT. The other sliders don't need a separate analyzer. Also, to be able to use the DIC slider you need one of the objective revolvers with the tray for the DIC slider. Some objective revolvers don't have this tray.
Last edited by enricosavazzi on Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
--ES

Ichthyophthirius
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 am

Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Hi,
Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:55 am
- U-DICT: Transmitted DIC module that goes into the nosepiece
- U-DICTS: Same as above, but apparently it can be adjusted? However there's no slot for a polariser, and it's not much different to above. Using this would require some extra hardware to hold a polariser, I don't want that mess.
Just to explain why they do this: in the U-DICTS, the analyser is installed separately on top of the vertical illuminator. That prevents the analyser from being "burnt out" by UV light if the same microscope is used for fluorescence and DIC.

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:55 am
- Expensive Normarski prisms: U-ODIC20, U-ODIC40, U-ODIC100
These seem to be specific to the U-TLO. For the U-TLD, they aren't expected to work as well? This tells me that even with the 20x, the condenser should be oil immersed, or else why would there be a difference? UNLESS, the 20x they referred to in the manual is the NA0.8 oil immersion version... oh dear.

Using this condenser allows me to get the u-dpa20, u-dpa40 and u-dpa100 which is a lot cheaper and easier to find. To conclude from my understanding, DIC already trades a lot of resolution for the effect, so chasing an oil condenser might just be a fruitless endeavour. The oil condenser is also listed as an optional accessory, I can imagine how hard it will be to find one.

This might not be the best decision now. U-TLO is scarce, those prisms sound impossible to get. U-PCD has an NA of 1.25, the U-TLD is at 0.9. There's also no reason to sell the Aplanat condenser as I have Saul's kit which doesn't work with the U-PCD and definitely also doesn't work with the U-UCD8.
The parts are probably still available from Olympus and the new prices approach the used prices for these rare items. The U-TLO front lens is US$657, the U-ODIC40 prism is US$694 etc. https://online.ogs.ny.gov/purchase/spg/ ... lympus.pdf which gets up to just $3000 plus tax for the front lens and three prisms ... not that much.

They are rare on the used market because they are also quite rare in labs (same for Leica); not that many labs seem to be convinced by the need to use NA 1.4 condensers when the NA 0.9 versions are normally sufficient.

An NA 1.4 front lens images a larger angle of the condenser prism or phase anulus compared to the NA 0.9 front lens = they have different magnifications - that's why different condenser prisms and phase rings are needed. A lot of them: https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... #msg266875 The price list even says "no phase" for the NA 1.4 front lens - maybe Olympus doesn't even offer phase contast for this lens? They also aren't listed any in the manual http://www.frankshospitalworkshop.com/e ... Manual.pdf

But if you have to spend money on this, maybe a the HR high resolution DIC may be even more suitable for your work (this was done with the U-TLO top lens (water immersion) and the HR prism set (designed for NA 0.9)): https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... ic=37743.0

Regards, Ichty

Macro_Cosmos
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Location: Sydney

Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

enricosavazzi wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:12 am
First of all, in my experience the UIS DIC system is very sensitive to mismatches between objective and DIC prism. For example, on my system the UDP10 prism works well with the UPlanApo 10x 0.40 (from the UIS series) and poorly with the UPlanFl N 10x 0.30 (from the UIS2 series). My recommendation for DIC is to stick exactly with the compatible prisms, objectives and slider from the table in the U-UCD8 manual, not to stray away from the recommended combinations, and not to mix UIS and UIS2 components. It might be possible to make some combinations of UIS and UIS2 components to work, but it is not a given.

The U-UCDB condenser I use accepts five large inserts (DIC prisms, phase rings or DF ring). The U-UCD8 condenser uses five large inserts and three small ones. Finding the right combination of large and small inserts on eBay can be difficult. Most inserts on eBay seem to be of the large type. Since I use DIC with 10x, 20x, 40x and 100x objectives, my U-UCDB with U-TLD is already full (including one empty slot for no DIC). So I got a second U-UCDB with U-TLO, DF ring and space for the U-DPO100 (which I did not buy yet). The UPlanFL 100x 1.30 Oil Iris objective should always be oiled to the slide, but the condenser can be used either oiled to the slide or not, and each combination requires a different DIC prism and a different top condenser lens. Hence my decision to get two U-UCDB condensers to be able to switch reasonably quickly between oil and air.

A lot of the Olympus DIC prisms, phase rings and DF rings on eBay are for use with other condensers and scopes, so you must be careful you choose the right ones. Some fit the BX 40 series scopes, some the inverted scopes, some the BX 50 series with universal condenser.

Most universal condensers come with the U-TLD top lens, while the U-TLO can be difficult to find. Usually a universal condenser comes with the right polarizer slider, so you rarely need to buy it separately.

All DIC sliders including the U-DICT are adjustable. You need the adjustment to properly use DIC, there is no way around it. The other sliders have an additional two-position adjustment, but normally you don't need it for transmitted DIC. The U-ANT analyzer is usually sold together with the U-DICT. The other sliders don't need a separate analyzer. Also, to be able to use the DIC slider you need one of the objective revolvers with the tray for the DIC slider. Some objective revolvers don't have this tray.
Thanks for your input!
I did see this post of yours: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... c2222fd3d0
Some pretty useful information there. My nosepiece does allow some kind of filter tray to be installed. I still can't find a good sized polariser for polarised light. I'm now thinking about 3D printing. The U-ANT will work, but what's the extinction ratio? EO offers high power polarisers (10,000:1 extinction ratio).

I just recognised the difference between the condensers. One is U-UCDB, B for bee, the other is U-UCD8, 8 is a number of course. Easy to miss I'd say. I suppose the U-UCD8-2 is similar to the U-UCD8 in that it offers 5 large inserts and 3 small ones.
"-2" on top and U-UCD8 on bottom.
u-ucd8-2.jpg
8.jpg
eBay has a U-UCDB-2 listed, too expensive.

My 40x and 100x are oil immersion objectives, so yeah they must be oiled to the slide or else the images are bad. The manual doesn't even have the 40x oil as an option. I believe 60XO and 100XO means 60x and 100x oil objectives. Shouldn't there be a 40XO too? Also it seems like there aren't any phase contrast UIS2 apochromats. I was told that apo PH objectives are very rare. I guess Olympus didn't make any due to lack of demand.
At "40xOI3", no DIC prism is listed for the U-DICT. What does the "I" even mean here? I see there's "20x" and "20xO2" listed together, latter presumably being the oil immersion 20x with an NA of 0.8.
oi.jpg
This is pretty hard to work with. Anyway, seems like my list sort of works, just need some tweaking. Thanks!

Ichthyophthirius
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 am

Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:00 am
What does the "I" even mean here?
I think it's "Iris". As in oil iris objectives.

Macro_Cosmos
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Location: Sydney

Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:29 am
Just to explain why they do this: in the U-DICTS, the analyser is installed separately on top of the vertical illuminator. That prevents the analyser from being "burnt out" by UV light if the same microscope is used for fluorescence and DIC.
That makes sense. I guess it's better practice to always tidy up after... ie remove all the stuff. Should prevent such expensive mistakes.

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:29 am
The parts are probably still available from Olympus and the new prices approach the used prices for these rare items. The U-TLO front lens is US$657, the U-ODIC40 prism is US$694 etc. https://online.ogs.ny.gov/purchase/spg/ ... lympus.pdf which gets up to just $3000 plus tax for the front lens and three prisms ... not that much.

They are rare on the used market because they are also quite rare in labs (same for Leica); not that many labs seem to be convinced by the need to use NA 1.4 condensers when the NA 0.9 versions are normally sufficient.

An NA 1.4 front lens images a larger angle of the condenser prism or phase anulus compared to the NA 0.9 front lens = they have different magnifications - that's why different condenser prisms and phase rings are needed. A lot of them: https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... #msg266875 The price list even says "no phase" for the NA 1.4 front lens - maybe Olympus doesn't even offer phase contast for this lens? They also aren't listed any in the manual http://www.frankshospitalworkshop.com/e ... Manual.pdf

But if you have to spend money on this, maybe a the HR high resolution DIC may be even more suitable for your work (this was done with the U-TLO top lens (water immersion) and the HR prism set (designed for NA 0.9)): https://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index. ... ic=37743.0

Regards, Ichty
Thanks for the price list PDF, it will be useful! Seems like it's very old though, but still a good reference. My contact told me that many used stuff online can be more expensive. For example, the U-SC3 is usually over $300 used in USD, but can be purchased for $350 AUD new ~$250 USD, which is half the price of a new one in the USA. The pricing certainly differs from region to region.

Some accessories are extremely expensive new. The U-DICT is $2300, I can get one for less than $1000 (used of course). Some recently sold for $300, too bad I missed them. I don't see a U-DICTH in the list, and I was told that it's different to U-DICTHR.

Provided the steep price, I don't think I'll consider the HR DIC components just now. Thanks for the links too, that German forum seems to be full of very useful information! Some beautiful images with good comparisons. Google translate nowadays does an alright job.

The DIC prisms and top lenses are worth purchasing new. It's still expensive, but the difference isn't that big.

For phase contrast, I actually wasn't aware of the compatibility problems. In short, the ordinary PH annuli will not work with the U-TLO oil top lens. Now I'm not even sure if my U-PCD is designed for oil immersion or not, it does have a higher NA of 1.25, higher than the U-TLD's 0.9, and the U-PCD-2 at 1.1??? What? So the V2.0 has a lower NA? Can't find any information online, maybe I should try and compare the methods. Surely the oil isn't too good for the U-PCD if it's not designed to be used that way.

Thanks for the input! -- MC

Ichthyophthirius
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:39 am
Now I'm not even sure if my U-PCD is designed for oil immersion or not, it does have a higher NA of 1.25, higher than the U-TLD's 0.9, and the U-PCD-2 at 1.1??? What? So the V2.0 has a lower NA? Can't find any information online, maybe I should try and compare the methods. Surely the oil isn't too good for the U-PCD if it's not designed to be used that way.
The U-PCD with NA 1.25 is for oil immersion of the front lens, but it will also work well with water immersion and can also be used dry (phase contrast will still work).

The U-PCD-2 with NA 1.1 also has an immersion front lens (will also work with water or dry) - you can tell by the rim around the top which catches oil runoff. Lower NA looks like a cost-cutting measure to me but it might also allow for a longer working distance. Also, I can't see a reference to them being achromatic condensers, so they might be a basic design.

The U-TLD is for dry use only. I would expect it to be achromatic-aplanatic and strain free, which is the standard for DIC condensers nowadays.

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:00 am
Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:39 am
Now I'm not even sure if my U-PCD is designed for oil immersion or not, it does have a higher NA of 1.25, higher than the U-TLD's 0.9, and the U-PCD-2 at 1.1??? What? So the V2.0 has a lower NA? Can't find any information online, maybe I should try and compare the methods. Surely the oil isn't too good for the U-PCD if it's not designed to be used that way.
The U-PCD with NA 1.25 is for oil immersion of the front lens, but it will also work well with water immersion and can also be used dry (phase contrast will still work).

The U-PCD-2 with NA 1.1 also has an immersion front lens (will also work with water or dry) - you can tell by the rim around the top which catches oil runoff. Lower NA looks like a cost-cutting measure to me but it might also allow for a longer working distance. Also, I can't see a reference to them being achromatic condensers, so they might be a basic design.

The U-TLD is for dry use only. I would expect it to be achromatic-aplanatic and strain free, which is the standard for DIC condensers nowadays.
Oh that's great to know! Thanks.
And yeah, the I meaning iris just hit me. The 40x I have is NA adjustable, hence my mistake of stacking at 0.5NA once. Look like I'll be spending a while until I can gather up the bits, I'll take my time. Phase contrast is a lot of fun already.

Pau
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Pau »

Gathering up the information I've pieced together, here's the list.
One of these:
- U-DICT: Transmitted DIC module that goes into the nosepiece
- U-DICTS: Same as above, but apparently it can be adjusted? However there's no slot for a polariser, and it's not much different to above. Using this would require some extra hardware to hold a polariser, I don't want that mess.
- U-DICTHC, U-DICTHR: These are high contrast/high resolution. Very hard to find and likely extremely costly, never seen one offered.
So my choice would be the U-DICT.

This is required:
- U-ANT: Polariser that sits in the U-DICT. Can also be used for polarised light, I think?
Some minor points to add
- U-DICTS has a lever that switches the prism vertically to match some objectives not compatible with U-DICT, see the table you posted. Otherwise they seem the same. If your scope can hold two sliders I would prefer U-DICTS
- In my U-DICT I use as analyzer and Edmund's Techspec 25mm polarizer fixed just with tape in place of the U-ANT (U-ANT secures with small magnets). The extintion rate is similar to some Nikon and Olympus analyzers I have. (see viewtopic.php?p=99260#p99260 second image).
Pau

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Pau wrote:
Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:04 am
Gathering up the information I've pieced together, here's the list.
One of these:
- U-DICT: Transmitted DIC module that goes into the nosepiece
- U-DICTS: Same as above, but apparently it can be adjusted? However there's no slot for a polariser, and it's not much different to above. Using this would require some extra hardware to hold a polariser, I don't want that mess.
- U-DICTHC, U-DICTHR: These are high contrast/high resolution. Very hard to find and likely extremely costly, never seen one offered.
So my choice would be the U-DICT.

This is required:
- U-ANT: Polariser that sits in the U-DICT. Can also be used for polarised light, I think?
Some minor points to add
- U-DICTS has a lever that switches the prism vertically to match some objectives not compatible with U-DICT, see the table you posted. Otherwise they seem the same. If your scope can hold two sliders I would prefer U-DICTS
- In my U-DICT I use as analyzer and Edmund's Techspec 25mm polarizer fixed just with tape in place of the U-ANT (U-ANT secures with small magnets). The extintion rate is similar to some Nikon and Olympus analyzers I have. (see viewtopic.php?p=99260#p99260 second image).
Thanks for the information Pau! Yeah that's a good idea, just tape an EO polariser to the insert. I'll order a 25mm one and use gaffers tape. Many U-DICT inserts I've seen don't actually come with the U-ANT.
Techspec ones have really high extinction ratio. I have a couple of their 50mm ones, works very well.

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Ichthyophthirius wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:00 am
Lower NA looks like a cost-cutting measure to me but it might also allow for a longer working distance. Also, I can't see a reference to them being achromatic condensers, so they might be a basic design.
Actually, here's something interesting. The U-AC abbe condenser had an NA of 1.25, the U-AC2 dropped that to 1.1.
Same happened to the U-PCD. This coincidence is too big.
So I'm guessing the U-PCD is simply an ordinary abbe condenser that has been modified, featuring built-in phase contrast annuli. The -2 version followed the U-AC revision.
So dropping the NA was either a cost measure, or something tiny needed a fix.

Oh, and UIS2 apochromatic phase contrast objectives do exist.
u.jpg

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Good job Olympus with your incredibly confusing terminology. =D>

The HR designation in Oly's DIC stuff does not mean high resolution!

For those who are learning like myself, here's their designations for DIC. Do not get fooled by the name just like I did :oops:

U-DICT
U likely means universal. DIC means of course dee eye see... I mean differential interference contrast.
T is transmitted light. There's also R, meaning reflected.

There's 3 designations after DICT. There's actually 4, but I haven't tried to find information on the forth yet.
U-DICTHR: For thick specimens, high contrast ones. They have blue text. HR here does not mean high resolution!!! Algae and diatoms fall under this bracket.
U-DICTHC: For thin specimens, low contrast ones. What the fluff, HC to me means high contrast (ie above). What and why and idk. Wouldn't HC and LC make more sense...
U-DICTS: S for shift. According to my digging, the difference for photomicrography isn't that huge. Using one requires an intermediate collar to hold a polariser, I guess the U-POT3? Complicates things, so not my type of joint here... bad puns are bad. (pot, yeah? hehehe I'll go stand in a corner)

U-DICTH: Seen some, but haven't dug around yet. I think it's dedicated to the water immersion microscopes, they are often bundled with them. Wouldn't U-DICTWi make more sense, and have this blue??? I... ok

The U-ANT is needed for the U-DICT, HR and HC. It won't work on the U-DICTS. However, these as standalones are hard to find and very expensive. Try to find a slider with this polariser, or simply get one from EO, tape it on. Cheaper too and it can be used for other purposes. This is why I personally will not bother with the U-DICTS.

pbraub
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Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by pbraub »

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:20 am

U-DICTS: S for shift. According to my digging, the difference for photomicrography isn't that huge. Using one requires an intermediate collar to hold a polariser, I guess the U-POT3? Complicates things, so not my type of joint here... bad puns are bad. (pot, yeah? hehehe I'll go stand in a corner)
No, the U-POT is the polarizer. The official setup would be an U-AN(2) in the epi illumination arm or the U-KPA (intermediate tube with slot for the analyzer) with an U-ANT if you do not have an epi illumination stand (i can provide pictures if need be on sunday).
The advantage is that when using epi fluorescence combined with dic you do not have to illuminate through the u-ant in the (in the u-dict). this eats up a lot of photons and damages your analyser. You can also use the u-dict with a detached analyser.

Regarding the "Shift"
I do not really notice a big difference when not shifting the dic prism (i have a normal u-dict (without shift) and do not really notice a difference when using it with BFP1 marked objectives (which should use the shift setting). Also i do not really see a difference when shifting the prism in the HC and HR versions - however i have not pixel peeped :-D.
Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:20 am
The U-ANT is needed for the U-DICT, HR and HC. It won't work on the U-DICTS. However, these as standalones are hard to find and very expensive.
U-ANT will only work with the DICT, the U-DICTHR and DICTHC do not have a slot for the analyser, they are more similar to the DICTS in that way.
If you want to use a U-ANT analyser you need a KPA intermediate tube.
Peter

pbraub
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by pbraub »

"basic setup"
restricted to the basic universal prism with the u-dict, cannot (officially) use dic in objectives marked with bfp1 (e.g. 60x and 100x apo).

Code: Select all

|  | tube (e.g. u-tr30 or similar)
|  |
|--| nosepiece with dic slider slot (d5re, d6re, d7re) and dic slider (U-DICT with U-ANT)
objective
sample

Universal Condenser (U-UCD, UCDB, UCD8) - includes a dedicated polarizer slider or if not available a U-POT below it will do


"Universal setup without epi illumination"
can use all dic sliders. with u-dict you cannot (officially) use the normal (non-hc/hr) prisms with BFP1 marked objectives. for this you would need the u-dicts. I do not know if the smaller aperture of the u-ant would cause problems so high up in the lightpath (i dont think so), the u-an analyser is larger.

Code: Select all

|  | tube (e.g. u-tr30 or similar)
|an| intemediate tube (u-kpa with u-ant)
|  |
|--| nosepiece with dic slider slot (d5re, d6re, d7re) and dic slider (U-DICT (without ant), U-DICTS, U-DICTHR, U-DICTHC)
objective
sample

Universal Condenser (U-UCD, UCDB, UCD8) - includes a dedicated polarizer slider or if not available a U-POT below it will do

Universal setup with epi illumination
can accept any slider, restrictions for the u-dict apply as above
can accept the u-an analyser slider

Code: Select all

|  | tube (e.g. u-tr30 or similar)
|an| u-an analyser in epi illumination arm
|fw| filter wheel with cubes
|--| nosepiece with dic slider slot (d5re, d6re, d7re) and dic slider (U-DICT (without ant), U-DICTS, U-DICTHR, U-DICTHC)
objective
sample

Universal Condenser (U-UCD, UCDB, UCD8) - includes a dedicated polarizer slider or if not available a U-POT below it will do

https://spectraservices.com/product/U-P802.html This is the KPA it has a mount for the same slider used in the d_re nosepieces.
https://www.scientifica.uk.com/images/analyser.jpg this is the analyser when used in the epi illumination arm (e.g. with u-dicts, hr and hc)

NikonUser
Posts: 2629
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:03 am
Location: southern New Brunswick, Canada

Re: Help needed: DIC components necessary for my Oly

Post by NikonUser »

Possibly irrelevant!
I have an Olympus BH2/BHS with DIC; very simple setup, explained in the Oly brochure.
Images likely not as good as more modern DIC's but may be worth the hassle your having
Old image here; scroll down:
http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 14&t=12995
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

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