40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

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NikonUser
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40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by NikonUser »

In an earlier post:
viewforum.php?f=25
it was suggested that the Laowa 2.5-5x might serve me well in that magnification range.
Currently I use the above Apo-Componon reversed on bellows on a FF Nikon (D810)

I am wondering if anyone has an opinion as to whether the Laowa would give me a sharper image than what I can currently obtain.
Noctuid moth (Syngrapha octoscripta) at 3.6x (10 mm on sensor); Zerene stack, unsharpened; actual pixels crop (top image)
Attachments
syngrapha 23vii20 test act px.jpg
syngrapha 23vii20 test.jpg
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

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Lou Jost
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Lou Jost »

I think my Laowa would have done better. If I have time I will make a comparison shot with butterfly scales. However, if you don't mind fixed magnifications, as Robert O'Toole has shown, there some componon combos that are very very sharp in that range of m.

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

I personally find lighting challenging for butterfly and moth wings at lower magnifications. I cannot identify the moth you presented which means I don't have it.
The Laowa 2.5-5x at 5x is as sharp as the Mit 5x. The Mitutoyo however does boast very slightly higher resolution and lack of CA. Laowa's 25mm has some moderate LoCA, which goes away with focus stacking.

I wasn't able to get coaxial epi-illumination to work with my Laowa lens, the Z-mount has a shallow flange but that's not enough for me to jam a beamsplitter without pushing the lens out of spec.
You can see my reviews of the lens on my blog, I personally think it's the most comprehensive out there.

That said, do you have sunset moth wings? Get a stack going, and I'll run a stack at your desired magnification too, we can match similar regions of the wing segment to make this a valid comparison.

Lou Jost
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Lou Jost »

Sunset moths are very light-dependent. I would suggest the cosmopolitan butterfly Vanessa cardui and its close relatives as universal targets. All of us have access to these. Or, use our new Universal chips? Does NikonUser have one? (Mine is still in the US, and perhaps in pieces.)

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Lou Jost wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:32 am
Sunset moths are very light-dependent. I would suggest the cosmopolitan butterfly Vanessa cardui and its close relatives as universal targets. All of us have access to these. Or, use our new Universal chips? Does NikonUser have one? (Mine is still in the US, and perhaps in pieces.)
Chances are, NikonUser doesn't have one.
Unfortunately, yours will be 100% in pieces, let's hope the segments are big enough to work with. So far, all the shattered ones have pieces large enough for 10x... unfortunate.
I don't think I have that moth. I've found corpses of it in the bathroom, so I suppose it's very common.

NikonUser
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by NikonUser »

M_C I read your blog RE: the Laowa, very informative.
I was not impressed with the quality of the images shown on the Laowa web site for this lens.
I don't have a Sunset Moth, or a chip. The moth wing photographed was from a common genus in Europe.

I do have Vanessa cardui. Images are of the entire butterfly, arrow points to area of actual pixel crop. Again at 3.6x mag. (100 mm wide of a FF D810)
Basic cropped image, no sharpening; and the same image sharpened.
EDIT: forget to include the actual part of the wing photographed at 3.6x; new top image
Attachments
wing-3.6x-usm.jpg
cardui 560.jpg
crop basic actu px.jpg
crop usm actu px.jpg
Last edited by NikonUser on Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

Lou Jost
Posts: 4525
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
Contact:

Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Lou Jost »

Great! I can duplicate that. Wil try today.

Lou Jost
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 am
Location: Ecuador
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Lou Jost »

I made a stack and will send it to you by PM, so you can judge them directly. Working distance was 50mm (!). I tried to match your lighting. No sharpening but these are stacked jpgs, which probably have some automatic in-camera sharpening applied.
I hope there are no file size limits on PM attachments.

Edit: Nope, can't send something that big. If you PM your email I will send it that way.

Lou Jost
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Lou Jost »

Done. By the way, my specimen is the local South American version of V. cardui; this is Vanessa braziliensis
http://www.sangay.eu/frkooxrkwzsowoe.ht ... aziliensis+/_

Edit: Just about every inhabited place in the world has this butterfly or its close relatives, so I have long argued that this could be a good standard test subject for us.

NikonUser
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by NikonUser »

Lou kindly sent an image of his species wing at the same mag. (3.6x) as mine taken with the Laowa 2.5-5x lens
I made a plate of a small section of each, Apo-Componon on left; each from a Zerene stack, not sharpened.
I can see no significant differences in resolution.
Attachments
Apo-Componon vs Laowa 2.5-5x.jpg
NU.
student of entomology
Quote – Holmes on ‘Entomology’
” I suppose you are an entomologist ? “
” Not quite so ambitious as that, sir. I should like to put my eyes on the individual entitled to that name.
No man can be truly called an entomologist,
sir; the subject is too vast for any single human intelligence to grasp.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr
The Poet at the Breakfast Table.

Nikon camera, lenses and objectives
Olympus microscope and objectives

JKT
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by JKT »

Ill add another set of pictures with the same lens. In these the lens was used stacked on Schneider-Kreuznach Componon 150/5.6. (old black metal version with chrome filter thread) The resulting magnification is pretty close (3.75).
- both lenses stopped down half stop
- Canon EOS RP (full frame, 6240 px horiz.)
- TIFs from Canon DPP with zero sharpening
- Helicon Focus (Depth map, radius 4, smoothing 1)

First the full frame for reference:
Test1.jpg
A crop still without sharpening:
Test2.jpg
Same with PhotoShop Smart Sharpen 125% 1.2 px
Test3.jpg
Sure - I could have used V. cardui, but didn't notice that suggestion before taking the pictures. :(

Lou Jost
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Re: 40/2.8 Apo-Componon @ 3.6x

Post by Lou Jost »

I can see no significant differences in resolution.
That's my conclusion too.

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