The Canon R5

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Macro_Cosmos
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The Canon R5

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

For $3899 pre-order, this new camera does seem to have more than a bag of tricks.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/port ... ses/eos-r5

- 45 MP
- 8k recording
- 4k at 120 FPS
- 2 card slots
- 8-stop IBIS
- 20 FPS in silent shutter mode and 12 FPS for the mechanical shutter

What I will care about for this hobby:
- 45 MP
- Hopefully no OLPF
- 4k at 120 FPS
- Flip out swivel screen for use on microscopes

Hella good on the spec sheet I must say, sweet as. I use a Z6, the flip out screen is nice, but the view always gets obstructed by the body. Degree in which it comes out isn't the best either, IMO.
There's this tiny feature that I've yet to see in these modern mirrorless cameras however -- allow us to rotate the liveview display!

ray_parkhurst
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by ray_parkhurst »

According to a couple sites, both the R6 and R5 have AA filters.

lonepal
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by lonepal »

''- 8-stop IBIS''

Where did you get this info?
Regards.
Omer

Bakwetu
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Bakwetu »

Depending on lens, it has up to 8 steps combined stabilization. The lens IS and the ibis work together. You can read more about it at https://www.thephoblographer.com/2020/0 ... s-r6-work/

Canon has made a nice presentation about what changes they've made from Canon R to r5 and r6. It is in 2 parts but only the first seems to be available now: https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/p ... part-1.pdf

chris_ma
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by chris_ma »

Bakwetu wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:58 pm
Canon has made a nice presentation about what changes they've made from Canon R to r5 and r6. It is in 2 parts but only the first seems to be available now: https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/p ... part-1.pdf
interestingly they also mention focus bracketing in that pdf.

some info that I could find from the RP:
Canon Focus Bracketing
Canon first introduced the Focus Bracketing feature in the Canon EOS RP mirrorless interchangeable lens camera.

What is Canon EOS Focus Bracketing?
When enabled, the focus bracketing feature instructs the camera to take a series of pictures with the lens' focus distance setting increasing between each image captured until the specified number of images are captured or until infinity focus is reached. The resulting set of images can then be focus stacked during post-processing with the result being an increased depth of field, potentially by a significant amount, while avoiding the softening effects of diffraction caused by very narrow apertures use.

[...]
The Canon Focus Bracketing Settings

There are four settings used to control the focus bracketing feature.

Activate Focus Bracketing (Enable/Disable)
Input number of shots (2 to 999)
Focus increment (1-10)
Exposure smoothing (Enable/Disable)
Hopefully, the first option is self-explanatory. The feature is either enabled or disabled.

The number of shots instructs the camera to capture up to the specified number of images. I say "up to" because the camera stops taking photographs when infinity focus distance is reached and this may only require a small number of images regardless of the number of shots setting. Use this setting to limit the camera to a shorter focus distance range, or set the number very high to ensure that all distances including infinity are covered.

The focus increment setting is definitely the vaguest on this list. This setting deals with the granularity of the focus distance adjustment between each shot with 1 requesting fine increments and 10 requesting wide increments. Specific distance changes are not able to be input and with the depth of field increasing with distance, a non-specific increment value makes sense. Focus brackets always start with the initial focus distance and proceed toward infinity (the ending distance cannot be directly specified). "The wider the pre-set lens aperture, and the closer the lens is to the subject for the first shot, the finer the focus increments should normally be, and the more Focus Bracketed shots should be dialed-in."

Exposure smoothing is disabled by default, but when enabled, the camera keeps image brightness consistent through the image set. This feature is primarily useful for compensating for light transmission losses when lenses, especially macro models, are focused at very close distances.
and about lenses:
Which Lenses are Officially Supported by Focus Bracketing?
Canon engineers have specified that only the lenses listed below are officially compatible with the focus bracketing feature. However, reports exist of additional lenses appearing to be supported by this feature. While it seems safe to say that all RF lenses will be supported, that expectation has not been confirmed by Canon. We also do not know why official compatibility is limited to this list of lenses, though the lenses on this list seem like logical choices for use with this feature. "We absolutely cannot guarantee proper Focus Bracketing operation when third-party lenses are attached."

Canon RF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM Lens
Canon RF 28-70mm f/2L USM Lens
Canon RF 35mm f/1.8mm f/1.8 IS STM Macro Lens
Canon RF 50mm f/1.2L USM Lens
Canon EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM Lens
Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM Lens
Canon RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM Macro Lens
Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM Lens
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro Lens
from:
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Can ... eting.aspx
chris

Macro_Cosmos
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Location: Sydney

Re: The Canon R5

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

Having an AA filter and non-BSI sensor is a bummer though.
Still a great camera it seems.

aveslux
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by aveslux »

There are reports that the animal eye auto focus is able to identify bee eyes..

kaleun96
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: The Canon R5

Post by kaleun96 »

I think it was in a review by Gerald Undone that it was mentioned that shooting stills will contribute to the over-heating issues and that would definitely worry me when shooting large stacks (e.g. several hundred images).

DPReview also mentions:
Video recording is the most processor-intensive (and hence most heat generating) thing you can do, but any use of the camera will start to warm it up, and start chipping away at your recording times. Consequently, any time spent setting up a shot, setting white balance, setting focus or waiting for your talent to get ready (or shooting still images) will all cut into your available recording time, and you won't reliably get the full amount Canon advises
And:
EOS R5 suggestions:
Expect to shoot line-skipped 30p for the bulk of your footage
Only use 8K or oversampled HQ 4K for occasional B-Roll
4K/120 and 8K will cut into your shooting time quickest of all
Be aware of your setup time and cumulative usage (including stills shooting)
Lastly:
It's worth noting that half an hour of camera usage in the sun had a significant impact on the camera's internal temperature (and hence estimate of recording duration). Similarly, the less time you can give the camera to cool, the lower the amount of capability is recovered. As you might expect: trying to charge the battery internally (which generates heat), undermines attempts to let the camera cool.

Otherwise it sounds like a very nice stills camera with some great part-time video capabilities but the heating issues would definitely be a worry for me even if just shooting stills. I don't think I've encountered any stills-only tests for overheating where the camera did in fact overheat but if the camera has 4k120 I'm going to want to use it, even if for only a few minutes.
Last edited by kaleun96 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Cam

Ichthyophthirius
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Ichthyophthirius »

For studio use, active cooling might be feasable. There are various setup ideas circulating in the astronomy community for cooling these cameras, e.g. https://www.myastroscience.com/dslrcoolerbox (haven't tried it myself).

Bakwetu
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Bakwetu »

As far as I know, just using it as a still camera will not overheat it.

kaleun96
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by kaleun96 »

I haven't come across anything that shows that either. Though I wonder if it can overheat if you shoot some video - but less than the maximum amount - and then start taking stills.
- Cam

JKT
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by JKT »

kaleun96 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:56 pm
Though I wonder if it can overheat if you shoot some video - but less than the maximum amount - and then start taking stills.
I think that could happen only if the heat was generated in one place and the critical component that is being protected is in another location. Otherwise, the temperature should immediately start to level towards the still photography numbers.

chris_ma
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by chris_ma »

JKT wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:20 pm
kaleun96 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:56 pm
Though I wonder if it can overheat if you shoot some video - but less than the maximum amount - and then start taking stills.
I think that could happen only if the heat was generated in one place and the critical component that is being protected is in another location. Otherwise, the temperature should immediately start to level towards the still photography numbers.
I've seen a report of somebody having it overheat while taking stills, but only in lots of fast bursts. I wouldn't expect this to be a problem with intervals of like 1 seconds, after all they are marketing this as a professional camera.

to me it seems that there are cheaper ways to get similar quality results in stacking, but for those looking to change to a Canon R body for various reason it looks like an excellent camera. I wonder how extensive the remote control software is, Canon usually had quite a good track record here.
chris

Macro_Cosmos
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by Macro_Cosmos »

It's a good camera but ultimately not for me.

At 45MP, I expect no AA filter. That said, the R5's sensor is now the benchmark to beat for front-illuminated sensors (BSIs too!) when it comes to dynamical range. It is somehow on the same level of Sony and Nikon's BSI 45MP sensors, that was surprising since Canon isn't known for dynamical range. BSI still offers a lot of advantages, I'll spare the theories as it often doesn't translate into reality at all, and the z7/a7r3&4 are olderrr-ish cameras... Canon did a good job nonetheless!

It's not for me because of video overheating issues, I will be doing microscopy videos in the near future, I'm sticking to my Z6 which does not overheat.
This might sound snobbish, but I will use the 8k if it's an option. If 8k overheats the camera so easily, why put it there? "Just use 4k instead" as many would say -- I paid for it but.
If the R5 overheats so easily under the American/Chinese/European sun... then in Australia... yeah. 35 degrees celcius is what we call "a normal summer morning". With all this climate change bringing hotter summers and colder winters, not too optimistic.

Of course, having several custom Z-mount adaptors made already and 2 Z-mount consumer optics matter to me as well, bought into this system already. Just sold my second last F-mount lens. My Laowa 25mm is going no where... (I'll send it to a mate in America for testing!)

For passive cooling, implementing a thermal-electric cooler on the back (where the screen lies) powered by a fan should fix it. This can be done with a simple Arduino setup. However, a fan is a fan, having it sitting on a camera could bring serious vibration issues for our hobby -- further testing is needed, bring out the Noctuas! I quick thought, how about making sure the fan has literally no contact to the heatsink, while also being as closely placed to it as possible? This could work out in our favour.

enricosavazzi
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Re: The Canon R5

Post by enricosavazzi »

Macro_Cosmos wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:08 am
[...] I quick thought, how about making sure the fan has literally no contact to the heatsink, while also being as closely placed to it as possible? This could work out in our favour.
One possible problem is that turbulence created by the fan blades in the air flow can transmit vibrations to the heatsink. It might be possible to reduce these vibrations with a "labyrinth" of baffles and/or a felt coating inside a sufficiently long air duct that leads from the fan to the heat sink. This requires a more powerful fan, but there is no particular reason why the fan should sit close to the heatsink. With an air duct, the distance between fan and heat sink can be as high as desired.

A possible solution might be using a heat pipe to carry heat from the camera to a large, convection-cooled heat sink. As long as there is no boiling (only evaporation) of the cooling fluid within the heat pipe, there should be no significant vibration.

A Peltier element with its cool side attached to the camera could also be used to pump heat away from the camera casing and toward a heat sink. Peltier elements are vibration-free.
--ES

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