My Vanox AH journey (was: Olympus BH-NIC DIC with Nikon CF long-barrel optics?)

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viktor j nilsson
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Post by viktor j nilsson »

I guess I will soon be able to tell you how it works to combine Nikon CF with Olympus short-barrel DIC. I was half lying at the beginning of the thread. I wasn't looking at a BH, I was looking at old-style Vanox AH with DIC and Polarization. Since there is so little information on the Vanox AH online, I didn't want to bring attention to this model before the auction ended. And I just won the auction, at $940, local pickup.
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It was just at the upper limit of what I wanted to pay. I've communicated with the seller, he doesn't know anything about microscope, so it's a bit risky. I couldn't go check it out due to Corona, so it's sight unseen. But he told me that it had been boxed up in a dry, heated room for many years. So probably dry grease, but hopefully nothing serious.

Hopefully everything works, or can be made to work. If it does, it should be an improvement over my DIYed-out Wild M20. I've grown increasingly frustrated with having the light port at the side, and a trinocular tube with two prisms, and a bunch of loose filters and prisms lying around. Would have loved a scope with drop-down xy controls, but maybe I can find one later at a fair price.

Based on what even the BH DIC and polarization units sell for at eBay, it felt like a risk worth taking. Will keep you informed!

Pau
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Post by Pau »

Well, this is a serious beast.

With it, it seems that you can regulate the parfocal distance both with the stage and head height. What kind of objectives are there?
Would have loved a scope with drop-down xy controls, but maybe I can find one later at a fair price
Despite being less comfortable, a rotatable stage is very convenient for DIC and other pol techniques because they are direction dependent. Some modern microscopes have classical XY stages partially rotatable, I don't know if old Oly can have it
Pau

viktor j nilsson
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Location: Lund, Sweden

Post by viktor j nilsson »

Yes, rotating stages are very nice with DIC. The square one for the Vanox AH also rotates (300 degrees) and has low drive controls. That one would be nice to find. For my Wild M20 I also have a square rotating stage.

I need to check the objectives more closely, I did not pay too much attention as I was hoping to be able to use my Nikon CF Fluors and Plan Apos. I think they are fairly basic plan achromats throughout.

viktor j nilsson
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Location: Lund, Sweden

Post by viktor j nilsson »

It is quite the beast. I am actually a bit frightened to go pick it up on Saturday - it just might be too big and heavy for me to live with. It's quite hard to get a grip of it's proportions from photos. But I wanted a more solid microscope, and that's what I got.

I've also read that these have some issues with the focus mechanism, which, unlike the BH2, is hard to fix. So I'm a bit worried. Anyway, if it all falls, I should get most of my money back just by selling the accessories.

PeteM
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Post by PeteM »

Viktor - for what it's worth, I recently bought a Vanox universal condenser unit and top DIC unit much like yours. The condenser was labelled (stick-on label) "LB" (which I take to mean Long Barrel) and has 10x, 40x, and 100x prisms and the same in phase annuli. Later BH and BH2 universal DIC condensers seemed to add 20x to the mix (10-20-40-100x).

I machined a bottom condenser dovetail (pix attached) so it would fit an Olympus BHS, while preserving the rotating polarizer. The DIC images are excellent with both SPlan and SPlan Apo objectives. They also seem to fill the entire 20mm field of view properly - something of a concern since they were from an era of 18mm FOVs. I've also tried Nikon CF optics and while there is some slight mismatch and banding, they tend to work as well.

Unless there's some great difference between condensers for short barrel and long barrel objectives, I suspect yours will provide excellent DIC as well. Worst case, the older short barrel Olympus objectives are still quite good, affordable used, and your scope a bargain. It isn't clear from the photos if the short barrel objectives you are getting are Mplan for the Epi mode or normal brightfield objectives meant for use with a cover slip? You might be surprised how good they are.

It will be a beast - recollection from the one Vanox I have experience with is that it's over 50 pounds in weight. Should make it a lot harder for a camera to shake it - no? Beautifully made, and only limited by its slightly older optics (most of which can be updated to long barrel objectives and wider fields of view). I think you will love having this scope.

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viktor j nilsson
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Post by viktor j nilsson »

Pete, many thanks for this input. This this is very encouraging. The transition from the AH/BH short-barrel to AH2/BH2 long-barrel system seems to have occurred in several confusing steps, with the late Vanox AH units getting equipped with some fairly odd combinations of old and new. The 1979 short-barrel Vanox catalogue has a AH-NA intermediate tube and and AH-NC condenser with 10,40 and 100x prisms. The 1983 long-barrel (LB) Vanox catalogue lists a BH2-NA intermediate tube and a AH-NC2 condenser with 10,20,40 and 100x prisms. So your condenser is clearly an intermediate version!

Are your prisms user replaceable?

What does your intermediate tube look like? Is it clearly like the BH2-NA shown here? http://www.microbehunter.com/microscopy ... 771#p73771

I'm still a little worried that the jump from short-barrel to long-barrel required serious changes to the design of both the upper and lower prisms, so that the setup I'm getting will perform poorly with Nikon or Olympus long-barrel objectives. We shall see. I'm not super keen to abandon the Nikon CF system for the older Olympus SB objectives, although you are right that the older Olympus can be really good value.

René
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Post by René »

Hi Viktor, that's a serious microscope, good luck with cleaning. Does it have the 30 mm SWF eyepieces?


I've got an old (grey) BH stand with the super widefield tubus and FOV26 eyepieces. The newer BH2 SWF eyepieces are slightly better along the edge of view. Got the DIC unit separately with this stand. Like yours, mine is the oldest version. With the old BH stand it needs an auxillary lens between condenser and base, and with that it is capable of lighting the full field of view down to a 4x objective (keep in mind with a 1.25 tubefactor, but with the SWF tube!). For a 1.4 NA condenser, that is impressive.

Your AH might have a different system, it looks like a pancratic (variable NA) brightfield condenser. Would like to hear how the stand works with the DIC 1.4 condenser. BTW, the prisms in the old BH DIC condenser and the look-a-like 1.4NA BH2 version are not interchangable (!), neither is the intermediate tube.

The original recommended plan phase short barrel objectives are very bland in DIC. I have tried the BH2 splanapo 20 (which is my most used objective in BF), but that one didn't work (see former remark). I settled with a full leitz 45mm, 170TL set. Working in DIC for me is a Pl Fl 10/0.30, Pl Apo 25/0.65 (cond. setting 40, somewhat lowered), Pl Apo 40/1.00 and an Apo 100/1.4 (last one a Leitz specialty, never seen it elsewhere). These work excellent in DIC, with a 'pretty much' homogenous grey over the whole FOV of 26, the higher the magnification, the better. Nevertheless, the system is very forgiving, I am using it for example a lot with the LOMO 40/0.75 water immersion with 12mm adapter on deep slides (0.3mm).
So I hope your Nikon's will do OK as well!

Best wishes, René

Pau
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Post by Pau »

René wrote:...
I settled with a full leitz 45mm, 170TL set. Working in DIC for me is a Pl Fl 10/0.30, Pl Apo 25/0.65 (cond. setting 40, somewhat lowered), Pl Apo 40/1.00 and an Apo 100/1.4 (last one a Leitz specialty, never seen it elsewhere). These work excellent in DIC, with a 'pretty much' homogenous grey over the whole FOV of 26, the higher the magnification, the better. Nevertheless, the system is very forgiving, I am using it for example a lot with the LOMO 40/0.75 water immersion with 12mm adapter on deep slides (0.3mm).
Really curious. With my hybrid DIC I use Leitz objectives but only -and not all of them- 160 ones work. None of the 170 corrected ones I've tested delivered DIC at all (Pl Apo 6.3/0.20, NPl Fluotar 10/0.30 and Pl Apo 100/1.32). And none Phase contrast objective tested worked.
Pau

René
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Post by René »

Hi Pau, I should be able to make some time this weekend and get some images for review!

Best wishes,

René

viktor j nilsson
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Location: Lund, Sweden

Post by viktor j nilsson »

René wrote:Hi Viktor, that's a serious microscope, good luck with cleaning. Does it have the 30 mm SWF eyepieces?

No, I am afraid not. I didn't know how to separate them until just now. But from what I can tell the left-hand socket is bigger than the right-hand one the stardard head, and equally-sized on the UW head. Mine clearly looks like the standard head:

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Too bad, would have loved to try the UW one.

viktor j nilsson
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:43 am
Location: Lund, Sweden

Post by viktor j nilsson »

René wrote: I've got an old (grey) BH stand with the super widefield tubus and FOV26 eyepieces. The newer BH2 SWF eyepieces are slightly better along the edge of view. Got the DIC unit separately with this stand. Like yours, mine is the oldest version. With the old BH stand it needs an auxillary lens between condenser and base, and with that it is capable of lighting the full field of view down to a 4x objective (keep in mind with a 1.25 tubefactor, but with the SWF tube!). For a 1.4 NA condenser, that is impressive.

Your AH might have a different system, it looks like a pancratic (variable NA) brightfield condenser. Would like to hear how the stand works with the DIC 1.4 condenser. BTW, the prisms in the old BH DIC condenser and the look-a-like 1.4NA BH2 version are not interchangable (!), neither is the intermediate tube.
The Vanox AH seem to have a very sophisticated system, with one auxiliary lens in its base, one under the condenser, and a frosted filter at the light port.

Image

The lens under the condenser flips 180 degress to switch between high (40x,100x) and low (4x,10x,20x) magnitification objectives. With the frosted glass in place, the manual claims that the 1.4NA condenser is able to illuminate a 4x objective, which is impressive. They also have a low-power condenser that can illuminate down to a 1.3x objective.

Image

viktor j nilsson
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:43 am
Location: Lund, Sweden

Post by viktor j nilsson »

René wrote: The original recommended plan phase short barrel objectives are very bland in DIC. I have tried the BH2 splanapo 20 (which is my most used objective in BF), but that one didn't work (see former remark). I settled with a full leitz 45mm, 170TL set. Working in DIC for me is a Pl Fl 10/0.30, Pl Apo 25/0.65 (cond. setting 40, somewhat lowered), Pl Apo 40/1.00 and an Apo 100/1.4 (last one a Leitz specialty, never seen it elsewhere). These work excellent in DIC, with a 'pretty much' homogenous grey over the whole FOV of 26, the higher the magnification, the better. Nevertheless, the system is very forgiving, I am using it for example a lot with the LOMO 40/0.75 water immersion with 12mm adapter on deep slides (0.3mm).
So I hope your Nikon's will do OK as well!

Best wishes, René
I've looked at the seller's pictures a bit more, and I'm now certain that there are two nosepieces, one with Pol objectives, and the other with standard objecties.

Image

On the scope, I can see a PO10x, PO20x and PO40x 0.65, which fits the polarizing equipment. I also see a 100x, which I assume is also Pol.


The one on the table must be another one:
Image

It has a Plan 10 0.25, a 40x 0.65 (black text) and a 40x 0.65 (red text). I am not quite sure what these are, except that they are plan achromats.

I really hope I can make some or several of my Nikon Fluors (10,20x,40x 0.85, 40x 1.3 oil) and Plan Apos (20x, 60x dry) work! I also have some CFNs and E plans that I can test, but I very much prefer the more highly corrected, high NA ones...

PeteM
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Post by PeteM »

viktor j nilsson wrote: . .. So your condenser is clearly an intermediate version!

Are your prisms user replaceable?

What does your intermediate tube look like? . . .
Hi Viktor, To answer your questions:

- The prisms are glued in place and not replaceable. One way you might be able to tell from the outside is that the rotating wheel (on mine) is only just over 5mm thick. The phase rings are screwed in place - and it might be possible to remove one and jury-rig a prism from something like a PZO condenser in its place. Have to be pretty thin, though.

Just FYI, there's a ball detent that pops loose upon opening this up. I usually try to disassemble things like this in a sort of tub - but ended up in a search this time for about a 3/32" ball.

- My intermediate tube is the older BH style.

Let us know if your prisms work with long barrel objectives. Cheers, Pete

viktor j nilsson
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:43 am
Location: Lund, Sweden

Post by viktor j nilsson »

PeteM wrote:
viktor j nilsson wrote: . .. So your condenser is clearly an intermediate version!

Are your prisms user replaceable?

What does your intermediate tube look like? . . .
Hi Viktor, To answer your questions:

- The prisms are glued in place and not replaceable. One way you might be able to tell from the outside is that the rotating wheel (on mine) is only just over 5mm thick. The phase rings are screwed in place - and it might be possible to remove one and jury-rig a prism from something like a PZO condenser in its place. Have to be pretty thin, though.

Just FYI, there's a ball detent that pops loose upon opening this up. I usually try to disassemble things like this in a sort of tub - but ended up in a search this time for about a 3/32" ball.

- My intermediate tube is the older BH style.

Let us know if your prisms work with long barrel objectives. Cheers, Pete
Well, it is certainly very interesting to hear that a condenser labeled LB works well with the old-style intermediate tube. Yet more reason to be hopeful.

Thanks for the reminder about the ball detent. I've chased some ball bearings in my day, prefer to avoid it!

Interesting to hear about the phase rings being removable. The only ones I have are rectangular Nikon epi-DIC prisms. Would require surgery to make them square. Will try to handhold them at least to see if they look promising at all.

Ichthyophthirius
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Post by Ichthyophthirius »

viktor j nilsson wrote: It has a Plan 10 0.25, a 40x 0.65 (black text) and a 40x 0.65 (red text). I am not quite sure what these are, except that they are plan achromats.
They are the Olympus biological plan achromats of the time. I think the phase contrast objectives had red labelling. They are listed here: http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/olymp ... optics.pdf

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