Pixel Shift and Stacking

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Macrero
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Pixel Shift and Stacking

Post by Macrero »

The only camera with pixel shift I used was the Oly Pen F. It did not convince me.

I am thinking of giving pixel shift another try. Afaik, there is no APS-C mirrorless camera with PS. I'm not buying a7R IV ot S1-R, their pixel-shifted files are absurdly/unnecessarily enormous. So it has to be MFT again.

From what I've read/seen (altough both use same tech), Panny did implement better this feature in the G9, also in-camera processing time is shorter. So I'm planning to get one to try.

Now, I'll be using it for studio stacking only. I've seen many single-shot tests, which clearly demonstrate the benefits of Pixel Shift. But I haven't seen pixel-shifted stacks. Do anyone actually uses pixel shift for stacking? Do you think it is worth the time and effort?

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

anto74
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Post by anto74 »

Hi,
I use my Panasonic G9 with Laowa 25mm... good result ( I think...)
Example https://www.antoniodesantis.it/fs/salti ... _1febb.jpg
Antonio

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

Hi Antonio,

thanks for the sample, looks good, though light is hard and there is much noise, maybe from oversharpening (?).

Was it shot at 40MP or downscaled from 80MP? I find interesting the 40MP High-res option. I am more than fine with 40MP pixel-shifted images. I think 80MP is an exaggeration, also I don't believe there is actually 80MP worth of resolution.

I already bought a G9, have not received it yet though.

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

anto74
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Post by anto74 »

Macrero wrote:Hi Antonio,

thanks for the sample, looks good, though light is hard and there is much noise, maybe from overshapening (?).

Was it shot at 40MP or downscaled from 80MP? I find interesting the 40MP High-res option. I am more than fine with 40MP pixel-shifted images. I think 80MP is an exaggeration, also I don't believe there is actually 80MP worth of resolution.

I already bought a G9, have not received it yet though.

Best,

- Macrero
Yes, 40mpx, better solution :)
This is first focus stacking, i'm looking for best setup for light and postproduction
I'm using Helicon focus trial version now.
Antonio

anto74
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Post by anto74 »

Anyway....for me the best pixel shift is implemented by Pentax...my K3 II pixel shift close up at 24mpx are very good!
Only one problem...i purchased Laowa 25mm for Canon mount to use with G9 and Sony a6100...but adapter from EF to PK is not available :(
Antonio

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

I will try both modes when I get the camera, but I will surely shoot in L (40MP) mode. Though the 40MP high-res RAWs are about the same size in MB as the 80MP ones :?

Haven't tried the Pentax. After selling my D810 I'm not buying a DSLR for stacking anymore.

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

I have stacked pixel-shifted images with the PEN F, the Pentax, and the S1R. They all gave great results in my opinion. Of course the Pentax is not doing the same thing as the other two; it is just giving full RGB measurements for each pixel, not increasing the number of pixels in the image. This still made a big improvement.


I recently inherited a G9 from my deceased friend Andreas Kay. How is its implementation of pixel-shifting better than that of the PEN-F? I did not think there was any fundamental difference between them.

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

Lou,

as I said in my OP, that's what I've read and seen, though results depends on various factors. When I get the camera I will be able to verify it (or not...).

IQ aside, one thing I didn't like about the Pen F High-Res mode is that (inexplicably) you can't shoot RAW only. When working in RAW the camera saves the huge 80MP pixel-shifted RAW + 20MP ORI (ORF) + 50MP JPEG. So there is longer in-camera processing time and write time as well. No matter if you don't need the native-res RAW and the JPEG.

I found that a nonsense, even contacted Olympus about that. They said they are going to redirect my suggestions to their tech team :roll:

With the Lumix you can shoot RAW only, either 80 or 40MP. Well, I already have a G9 on the way, I'll see if I actually like it better than the Oly.

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

I actually liike the PEN F jpgs since they are reduced in pixel dimensions exactlly the right amount to avoid the redundancy that is present in the RAW files. The jpgs are 50Mp while the RAW files are 80Mp. I suspect they don't add much to the processing time. And without them it is hard to browse the files in a file browser.

Edit: One thing the G9 may improve on is the processing time. It probably has a several-gnerations-newer processor than the PEN F. That would be a very significant improvement. The main reason I don't usually use pixel-shifting for stacks is that it takes too long.

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

I shoot only RAW. Not sure how much or little the mandatory simultaneous mode of the Pen F adds to the processing time (it surely increases it), but there should be a PS RAW only option.

Yes, the processing time is an important factor when it comes to stacking. With the Oly + decent card, processing + writing time was long - about 14 sec. I got a fast SD UHS-II card for pixel-shift work, so I hope the shooting time with the G9 + fast card will be significantly shorter.

I am planning to shoot 40MP RAW, I think that's about the real resolution of the pixel-shifted files (40-50MP). I don't need more either.

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Yes, 50Mp is the real resolution of those 80Mp files, according to Olympus.

Nevertheless, starting with the larger 80Mp image will help maintain quality during post-processing. Best is to reduce it to 50Mp (or whatever) at the end of the workflow.

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

Lou Jost wrote:Yes, 50Mp is the real resolution of those 80Mp files, according to Olympus.

Nevertheless, starting with the larger 80Mp image will help maintain quality during post-processing. Best is to reduce it to 50Mp (or whatever) at the end of the workflow.
I plan to try that too and see if I find a worthy difference. Curiously the 40 and 80MP RAWs of the Panny are about the same weight. The difference is only a few megabytes.
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Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

That's strange.

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

Very strange indeed. According to the site linked below, the 40MP and 80MP pixel-shifted RAWs are both 125MB :?

https://lumixexperience.panasonic.co.uk ... ibGpLaZPAz
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Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

My guess is that this is a typo.

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