Flash(es) recommendation

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

Moderators: rjlittlefield, ChrisR, Chris S., Pau

dhmiller
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Post by dhmiller »

Pau = I thought the Micromate was used to focus a scope? How are you using it? I asked William about adapting it for use as a specimen holder, but he didn't think that was a good idea...
Pau wrote:
Lou Jost wrote: I have the Wemacro Micromate <snip>

Pau
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Post by Pau »

Yes, I use it to move the microscope focus blocks, both for typical microscope use and for high magnification macro with a microscope focus block to move the specimen in a vertical setup
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 122#232122

In any case the motor just rotates, you need a system (screw driven rails and microscope focusing blocks being the more usual) to transform it in linear movement. What kind of specimen holder do you want to motorize?
Pau

dhmiller
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Post by dhmiller »

Well the problem is, I don't have an efficient working system to hold my specimens. I have tried the Helping Hands devices - far too imprecise and not immobile - and also purchased the Wemarco XYRstage with specimen holder, and the alligator clip broke off the first time I used it. It also has a very limited range of movement. I am looking for a high quality and precision solution with some type of automation, similar to the type of control I have with my Stackshot but across several axes and with rotation, perhaps with a bullhead for proper alignment of the specimen, but I have not found anything that I can purchase prebuilt, and I don't have very good "engineering" skills to build my own. So definitely looking for something to purchase if possible, or something I can build fairly easily for 10 - 20x mag. I'd also happily pay some to put something together for me, such as the various systems seen at this forum.
Pau wrote:Yes, I use it to move the microscope focus blocks, both for typical microscope use and for high magnification macro with a microscope focus block to move the specimen in a vertical setup
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 122#232122

In any case the motor just rotates, you need a system (screw driven rails and microscope focusing blocks being the more usual) to transform it in linear movement. What kind of specimen holder do you want to motorize?

RobertOToole
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Re: Flash(es) recommendation

Post by RobertOToole »

Macrero wrote:I've been always working with continuous light, but I will be shooting scales at high magnification (20-50X+) where vibrations are virtually impossible to avoid completely.

So I am looking for at least a couple of flashes. I am considering the Godox T350S + X1T trigger, but I am not sure those will have enough power for high magnification work.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Best,

- Macrero
Macrero wrote:I've been always working with continuous light, but I will be shooting scales at high magnification (20-50X+) where vibrations are virtually impossible to avoid completely.

So I am looking for at least a couple of flashes. I am considering the Godox T350S + X1T trigger, but I am not sure those will have enough power for high magnification work.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Best,

- Macrero
Hi Macrero,

After using Godox for almost 2 yrs or so now, I'm really happy with my 4 x TT350s setup, I am usually using only 2 units at a time, and even then I am at low power, something like 1/128-1/32 with diffuser sheets, usually 2-4, or a dome. If I have to go above 1/32nd or so, I just turn on another TT350.

http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Mini_C ... T350S.html

BTW my wife has started using a Godox AD200 for people photography and I've been impressed with power, battery life and low price (it uses the same trigger as the TT350s of course).

http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Witstr ... AD200.html

Two of these would give you plenty of mounting options and more than enough of power I would think.

Anyway so far so good with Godox (since Dec 2017).

Best,

Robert

Macrero
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Re: Flash(es) recommendation

Post by Macrero »

RobertOToole wrote:Hi Macrero,

After using Godox for almost 2 yrs or so now, I'm really happy with my 4 x TT350s setup, I am usually using only 2 units at a time, and even then I am at low power, something like 1/128-1/32 with diffuser sheets, usually 2-4, or a dome. If I have to go above 1/32nd or so, I just turn on another TT350.

http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Mini_C ... T350S.html

BTW my wife has started using a Godox AD200 for people photography and I've been impressed with power, battery life and low price (it uses the same trigger as the TT350s of course).

http://www.godox.com/EN/Products_Witstr ... AD200.html

Two of these would give you plenty of mounting options and more than enough of power I would think.

Anyway so far so good with Godox (since Dec 2017).

Best,

Robert
Hi Robert,

thank you for sharing your experience. The TT350s seems like a very good option: Small, manageable, powerful enough (thanks for confirming that), reliable and cheap.

The thing is that I would be using flashes for high mgnification scales stacks onlly. For mangifications up to say 20X I have no problem (and I prefer to work with continuous light). So, the "jolting" issue pointed out by Chris makes me rethink the use of flashes.

This is a test stack at 20X with continuous light:

https://images2.imgbox.com/b8/ac/0qIzV1Cr_o.jpg

And this one is at 100X:

https://images2.imgbox.com/10/4f/gbKk53WZ_o.jpg

I think that's more than acceptable, but I would like to make sure there are no vibrations affecting sharpness at those critical magnifications.

I have ruled out the use of flashes for now. I will first try to make my setup as steady as possible (not sure what could I improve though, but will look into it). And I will maybe add a couple of light sources more.

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hello Macrero,
If you want to take the photographs of the scales in big magnifications,
so that the grid-structure is visible you will need the following things:
- A rail with the small steps ca. 0.0003mm or better 0.0001mm
- A lens with the high NA (e.g. 0.55 or 0.75) and long WD
- 4 flashes with 200m zoom and 1/128 power ( e.g. YN660 )
- A special diffuser and specimen holder in a black cylinder
I’m afraid that in other case you will not be able to catch the grid-structure :-(
BR, ADi

JH
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Re: Flash(es) recommendation

Post by JH »

Macrero wrote:
I think that's more than acceptable, but I would like to make sure there are no vibrations affecting sharpness at those critical magnifications.
Indeed - very nice pictures!

I have also tried to use flash on butterfly scales some years ago.
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 814#189814
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 643#192643
For light scales and short/weak flash settings it works but at least for me it is easier to use continous light and my Optiphot microscope.

If you do not have a microscope, I would try flash. As I mention in one of the posts above sometimes it is possible to use a small mirror instead of a second flash.

Best regards
Jörgen Hellberg
Jörgen Hellberg, my webbsite www.hellberg.photo

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

Adalbert wrote:Hello Macrero,
If you want to take the photographs of the scales in big magnifications,
so that the grid-structure is visible you will need the following things:
- A rail with the small steps ca. 0.0003mm or better 0.0001mm
- A lens with the high NA (e.g. 0.55 or 0.75) and long WD
- 4 flashes with 200m zoom and 1/128 power ( e.g. YN660 )
- A special diffuser and specimen holder in a black cylinder
I’m afraid that in other case you will not be able to catch the grid-structure :-(�
BR, ADi
Hi Adi,

I am far from expert in rails, motors and controllers. I am using a heavy Parker rail with 0.02" (0.508mm) pitch. It is a P (Precision Grade) version, not sure how big (if any) difference it makes.. + Oriental Motor Nema 23 motor with 400 steps/rev + MKJZZ standalone controller.

High-M objectives I have 2 Olys 20X - UMPLanFl 20/0.45 (WD 3.1mm) and LMPlanFl 20/0.40 (WD 12mm). For scales I actually prefer to work with the 20/0.45.
Also a Nikon M Plan 40/0.5 ELWD (WD 10.1mm) and Nikon M Plan 100/0.75 SLWD (WD 4.7mm).
Next week I will get an Oly UMPlanFl 50/0.80 ((WD 1mm (!)). I am pretty confident it will be useable for scales, but I will see when I get it and try it...

I will try to borrow a couple of flashes and see for myself.

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Macrero
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Re: Flash(es) recommendation

Post by Macrero »

JH wrote: Indeed - very nice pictures!

I have also tried to use flash on butterfly scales some years ago.
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 814#189814
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 643#192643
For light scales and short/weak flash settings it works but at least for me it is easier to use continous light and my Optiphot microscope.

If you do not have a microscope, I would try flash. As I mention in one of the posts above sometimes it is possible to use a small mirror instead of a second flash.

Best regards
Jörgen Hellberg
Hi Jörgen.

those look very good. No, I do not have a scope. I am planning to build an horizontal setup for high-m work though.

I also prefer to work with continuous light, but I will try working with flash(es) and see if there is an improvement. The mirror is a very good idea, I will try that. Thanks!

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hello Macrero,
Yes, WD 1mm is a really big challenge :-)
But your NIKON M Plan 100 with WD 4.7mm should work without any problem.
BR, ADi

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

If money is no object, Mitutoyo objectives have very long WD. There is a 50x 0.75 with 5mm WD, and a 50x 0.50 G Plan Apo whose working distance is around 15mm but you need a 3.5mm optical flat somewhere in the optical path for that one. I found the latter on eBay once for a good price.

cube-tube
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Post by cube-tube »

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned overheating...
I've been using a flashpoint evolv 200 (godox ad200) and after about 100 shots at 1/4 power it overheats and falls back to a 10s recycle time.
Same issue with some cheap neewer speedlights.

Any advice on how to go faster? Ideally with speedlights/strobes

chris_ma
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Post by chris_ma »

cube-tube wrote:I'm surprised nobody has mentioned overheating...
I've been using a flashpoint evolv 200 (godox ad200) and after about 100 shots at 1/4 power it overheats and falls back to a 10s recycle time.
Same issue with some cheap neewer speedlights.
Any advice on how to go faster? Ideally with speedlights/strobes
I think most people here run their speedlights at 1/128 or 1/64 power to benefit from short exposures, that should get get rid of overheating issues unless you do extremely fast bursts.
If you need more light, use several units (or as mentioned here, use mirrors or bounces - or simply put them closer ;)

chris
[edit: fixed typo]
Last edited by chris_ma on Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

You have to use the 1/128 power for the big magnifications in order to get short durations and avoid the vibrations. Instead of the ¼ power you can use LED.

Macrero
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Post by Macrero »

Adalbert wrote:Hello Macrero,
Yes, WD 1mm is a really big challenge :-)
But your NIKON M Plan 100 with WD 4.7mm should work without any problem.
BR, ADi
I like challenges :P It will be tricky, but given the tiny front element and bullet-shaped barrel (removing the housing), I think lighting will not be a probelm. I'll see...

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

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