$2.50 Rogonar-S v $250 APO-Rodagon-D v $1K Canon MPE Test

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chris_ma
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:23 pm

Post by chris_ma »

RobertOToole wrote:I must have tested something like 100+ tube lenses mostly in the 80-120 range. I tested something like 20 or more 135-150s in the last month alone. :shock:
you must be a wizard at swapping lens tubes by now :)
I've adopted your thorlabs SM2 setup and like it a lot, but but whenever I have to change extension it takes me ages to get everything back in order (flocking, alignment etc) - I don't want to imagine adding an extra tube lens in there.

I'm actually considering trying the thorlabs SM2 Quick Release Adapter (SM2QAF and SM2QAM) for the three lenses I have to swap a lot, keeping the base fixed with SM2 rings and swapping only lenses and needed extra extension. not cheap though.

I first was trying bellows but I find it hard to secure them as tight as the SM2 setup on a vertical system.

In any case, hats off to your lens swapping skills!

kaleun96
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:47 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by kaleun96 »

RobertOToole wrote:No, I didn't know Rodenstock even made a Trinar 20mm!
You can get three for $25 here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Tri ... 2074840533

I've bought from this seller before and I think I mentioned to you that once they threw in a different lens or two for free. If you're interested, I'll split the lot with you!

They've got some other lenses I'd like to try but a bit too pricey for a shot in the dark.
RobertOToole wrote:I must have tested something like 100+ tube lenses mostly in the 80-120 range. I tested something like 20 or more 135-150s in the last month alone.
Wow :shock:

I was thinking that one advantage of the MS120 test is that it shows the upper potential of the lens. Perhaps it doesn't perform so well on another TL but you at least know that it can perform well, just a matter of how easy it is to find a TL that works with it.
- Cam

RobertOToole
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Location: United States
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Post by RobertOToole »

chris_ma wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:I must have tested something like 100+ tube lenses mostly in the 80-120 range. I tested something like 20 or more 135-150s in the last month alone. :shock:
you must be a wizard at swapping lens tubes by now :)
I've adopted your thorlabs SM2 setup and like it a lot, but but whenever I have to change extension it takes me ages to get everything back in order (flocking, alignment etc) - I don't want to imagine adding an extra tube lens in there.

I'm actually considering trying the thorlabs SM2 Quick Release Adapter (SM2QAF and SM2QAM) for the three lenses I have to swap a lot, keeping the base fixed with SM2 rings and swapping only lenses and needed extra extension. not cheap though.

I first was trying bellows but I find it hard to secure them as tight as the SM2 setup on a vertical system.

In any case, hats off to your lens swapping skills!
Thorlabs does make nice gear and I like to see them constantly expanding but a word of caution, I put off buying things in the past and they seem to drop products as quick as they add new ones. Some items I have aren't in production anymore. I am sure they will make anything you want if you ask but its going to cost you.


One thing that I find essential, I don't know how I could do without it for testing is the SM2 variable tube. Very solid and a time saver!

https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9. ... up_id=3393

Image

Miljenko
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Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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Rodenstock 75mm f4.5 APO-Rodagon-D 2x

Post by Miljenko »

Thank you for another inspirative comparison, Robert. Your ability to dig less known lenses from the dark side is incredible as well as the feeling for possible above average results from such specimen.
This time you've decided to compare to "well known Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-D 2x". Yes, I have one at hand too, purchased it (wasn't cheap) to have kind of reference lens. Unfortunately, it turned out it's well known the same way as Ford T. Important in history but definitely outdated.
It's asymmetrical design was meant to have sweet spot at 2x in one direction and 0.5x in another. Unfortunately, the only sweet spot there is at exactly 0.66x! At 2x I have measured very mediocre 2457/2179 LW/PH (center/APS-C edge) with pretty high CA at 0.53. At 1x it gets better to still not stellar 3042/3103 and 0.48 CA. It's "single purpose" brother APO-Rodagon-D 1x produces 3402/3477 and CA of only 0.1 at 1x.
At 0.5x this lens should be shining and it's actually pretty good in center (3578 LW/PH) but at just 12mm away from center (APS-C edge) resolution drops to just 2897 LW/PH.
So at 0.66x and only there, that lens gets you what you payed for: solid performance across the frame. Center resolution of 3458 LW/PH and whooping 3755 at the edges. And the CA is not so bad at 0.185.
So this is why I call it "another Rodenstock single purpose lens" which fortunately has an important role in my lens collection. I'm using it for FF to APS-C digitizing tons of negatives and slides from analog times. It's very flat focal plane helps a lot during a process.
Robert, please continue with your great comparisons and I'll do my best to follow with some numbers! :-)
All things are number - Pythagoras

ray_parkhurst
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Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA
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Re: Rodenstock 75mm f4.5 APO-Rodagon-D 2x

Post by ray_parkhurst »

Miljenko wrote: ...
So at 0.66x and only there, that lens gets you what you payed for: solid performance across the frame. Center resolution of 3458 LW/PH and whooping 3755 at the edges. And the CA is not so bad at 0.185.
...
Thanks for this tip as well! I had not tried the 75ARD2 at this mag, but I will do that now. 0.66x is the sweet spot for my Cent photography on APS-C, so this could be very nice indeed. Is the lens mounted normally or in retro for best IQ at 0.66x?

ray_parkhurst
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Post by ray_parkhurst »

kaleun96 wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:No, I didn't know Rodenstock even made a Trinar 20mm!
You can get three for $25 here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Tri ... 2074840533

I've bought from this seller before and I think I mentioned to you that once they threw in a different lens or two for free. If you're interested, I'll split the lot with you!

They've got some other lenses I'd like to try but a bit too pricey for a shot in the dark.
RobertOToole wrote:I must have tested something like 100+ tube lenses mostly in the 80-120 range. I tested something like 20 or more 135-150s in the last month alone.
Wow :shock:

I was thinking that one advantage of the MS120 test is that it shows the upper potential of the lens. Perhaps it doesn't perform so well on another TL but you at least know that it can perform well, just a matter of how easy it is to find a TL that works with it.
Thanks for that tip. I like these short FL lenses for use as high power magnifiers, so if they don't work as lenses I have a backup use.

kaleun96
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:47 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by kaleun96 »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
kaleun96 wrote:
RobertOToole wrote:No, I didn't know Rodenstock even made a Trinar 20mm!
You can get three for $25 here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Tri ... 2074840533

I've bought from this seller before and I think I mentioned to you that once they threw in a different lens or two for free. If you're interested, I'll split the lot with you!

They've got some other lenses I'd like to try but a bit too pricey for a shot in the dark.
RobertOToole wrote:I must have tested something like 100+ tube lenses mostly in the 80-120 range. I tested something like 20 or more 135-150s in the last month alone.
Wow :shock:

I was thinking that one advantage of the MS120 test is that it shows the upper potential of the lens. Perhaps it doesn't perform so well on another TL but you at least know that it can perform well, just a matter of how easy it is to find a TL that works with it.
Thanks for that tip. I like these short FL lenses for use as high power magnifiers, so if they don't work as lenses I have a backup use.
No problem, let me know how they perform if you do get them!
- Cam

RobertOToole
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Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:34 pm
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Re: Rodenstock 75mm f4.5 APO-Rodagon-D 2x

Post by RobertOToole »

Miljenko wrote:Thank you for another inspirative comparison, Robert. Your ability to dig less known lenses from the dark side is incredible as well as the feeling for possible above average results from such specimen.
This time you've decided to compare to "well known Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-D 2x". Yes, I have one at hand too, purchased it (wasn't cheap) to have kind of reference lens. Unfortunately, it turned out it's well known the same way as Ford T. Important in history but definitely outdated.
It's asymmetrical design was meant to have sweet spot at 2x in one direction and 0.5x in another. Unfortunately, the only sweet spot there is at exactly 0.66x! At 2x I have measured very mediocre 2457/2179 LW/PH (center/APS-C edge) with pretty high CA at 0.53. At 1x it gets better to still not stellar 3042/3103 and 0.48 CA. It's "single purpose" brother APO-Rodagon-D 1x produces 3402/3477 and CA of only 0.1 at 1x.
At 0.5x this lens should be shining and it's actually pretty good in center (3578 LW/PH) but at just 12mm away from center (APS-C edge) resolution drops to just 2897 LW/PH.
So at 0.66x and only there, that lens gets you what you payed for: solid performance across the frame. Center resolution of 3458 LW/PH and whooping 3755 at the edges. And the CA is not so bad at 0.185.
So this is why I call it "another Rodenstock single purpose lens" which fortunately has an important role in my lens collection. I'm using it for FF to APS-C digitizing tons of negatives and slides from analog times. It's very flat focal plane helps a lot during a process.
Robert, please continue with your great comparisons and I'll do my best to follow with some numbers! :-)
Hi Miljenko,

Thanks for taking the time to share so much interesting information.

Somewhere I have a technical slideshow from Qioptiq that shows the various resolutions of the lenses and the APO-Rodagons are at the top, but in this case the top means the largest pixel pitch which are all outdated :shock: If I remember correctly the APO-D was designed for 7 micron sensors, the new inspec.x lenses are designed for 5 down to 3.5 micron sensors. That makes sense.

dickb
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:54 am

Re: Rodenstock 75mm f4.5 APO-Rodagon-D 2x

Post by dickb »

RobertOToole wrote:
Miljenko wrote:Thank you for another inspirative comparison, Robert. Your ability to dig less known lenses from the dark side is incredible as well as the feeling for possible above average results from such specimen.
This time you've decided to compare to "well known Rodenstock APO-Rodagon-D 2x". Yes, I have one at hand too, purchased it (wasn't cheap) to have kind of reference lens. Unfortunately, it turned out it's well known the same way as Ford T. Important in history but definitely outdated.
It's asymmetrical design was meant to have sweet spot at 2x in one direction and 0.5x in another. Unfortunately, the only sweet spot there is at exactly 0.66x! At 2x I have measured very mediocre 2457/2179 LW/PH (center/APS-C edge) with pretty high CA at 0.53. At 1x it gets better to still not stellar 3042/3103 and 0.48 CA. It's "single purpose" brother APO-Rodagon-D 1x produces 3402/3477 and CA of only 0.1 at 1x.
At 0.5x this lens should be shining and it's actually pretty good in center (3578 LW/PH) but at just 12mm away from center (APS-C edge) resolution drops to just 2897 LW/PH.
So at 0.66x and only there, that lens gets you what you payed for: solid performance across the frame. Center resolution of 3458 LW/PH and whooping 3755 at the edges. And the CA is not so bad at 0.185.
So this is why I call it "another Rodenstock single purpose lens" which fortunately has an important role in my lens collection. I'm using it for FF to APS-C digitizing tons of negatives and slides from analog times. It's very flat focal plane helps a lot during a process.
Robert, please continue with your great comparisons and I'll do my best to follow with some numbers! :-)
Hi Miljenko,

Thanks for taking the time to share so much interesting information.

Somewhere I have a technical slideshow from Qioptiq that shows the various resolutions of the lenses and the APO-Rodagons are at the top, but in this case the top means the largest pixel pitch which are all outdated :shock: If I remember correctly the APO-D was designed for 7 micron sensors, the new inspec.x lenses are designed for 5 down to 3.5 micron sensors. That makes sense.

You mean something like this?

Image

dickb
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:54 am

Post by dickb »

And the matching list of sensor sizes:

Image

RobertOToole
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Re: Rodenstock 75mm f4.5 APO-Rodagon-D 2x

Post by RobertOToole »

dickb wrote: You mean something like this?
Good one Dick, this one is more complete than the list I mentioned!

Miljenko
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Re: Rodenstock 75mm f4.5 APO-Rodagon-D 2x

Post by Miljenko »

ray_parkhurst wrote:
Thanks for this tip as well! I had not tried the 75ARD2 at this mag, but I will do that now. 0.66x is the sweet spot for my Cent photography on APS-C, so this could be very nice indeed. Is the lens mounted normally or in retro for best IQ at 0.66x?
At 1x and lower this lens should be oriented to normal direction.
All things are number - Pythagoras

dmillard
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Post by dmillard »

In case anyone missed it, there are currently some 35mm fixed-aperture Rogonar S lenses here for a very affordable price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174065000145
:)

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

dmillard wrote:In case anyone missed it, there are currently some 35mm fixed-aperture Rogonar S lenses here for a very affordable price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174065000145
:)

There is a test sample on the way to me already including some others that look interesting like a 4/25 Ysaron. I'll post my findings when I get the box.

With prices like that there isn't much to risk anyway. :shock:

dmillard
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Austin, Texas

Post by dmillard »

RobertOToole wrote: There is a test sample on the way to me already including some others that look interesting like a 4/25 Ysaron. I'll post my findings when I get the box.
Hello Robert,

I'm glad that you're the recipient of the sample platter! I look forward to seeing your results.

Best,
David

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