CANON EOS M6 Mark II

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MacroLab3D
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:40 am
Location: Ukraine

Post by MacroLab3D »

Hi, all!
In 2017 i came to the forum for your advice and exactly Adalbert recommended M3 in his thread
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... highlight=
about M3 so i bought that and adore it till today.

Now i am back to see your opinion on my next upgrade (M6II) and what a coincidence, Adalbert here looking to upgrade to M6II too! Soo awesome!

I was waiting for electronic shutter from Canon for so long and almost lost the hope, while looking for Sony A6300/A6400/A6500. Finally Canon made it. I simply don`t like to change everything i have to Sony staff, you see.

So, M6II looks like a perfect camera to replace my old M3. But your concerns about AA now bother me too. Strange. I have never minded that filter on M3. Also i never had anything better(except 5DII) so maybe that's why :))... I hope it is not much worth than it was on M3, which was perfectly fine to me.

Macrero, your example looks terrible though. I wonder which shutter speed it was? It looks like more than 1 second. In which case it is usual stuff for M3. You simply never shoot with Tv longer than 1 sec and you will be fine :D.

Another thing which is frustrating is IR absence on M6II, which i am used to now. I like the fact that there less wires attached but i can live with it. If i understood correct you need:
2.5MM SHUTTER CABLE https://www.cognisys-inc.com/store/sc-creb-01.html
...to work with that camera and StackShot 3X? Correct me if i am wrong.
Also... can it be replaced with this 10X cheaper alternative, for example:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3274313 ... fqFvP&mp=1

And no, M3 has no "connectivity feature" support (and M6II too i expect) and i am fine with that too. I am using iPad instead. Less convenient but again - less wires is better to me.

Overall it looks like Canon M6 Mark II is going to be my next baby. Fingers crossed.

P.S. Almost forgot another M3 problem which can be frustrating is that it skips IR shots from time to time... like every 100th shot is skipped. Not a big dial but hopefully wired M6II will not have that problem in my life anymore.

-Oleksandr
Macrero wrote:Hi Adi,

the AA filter effect is obvious at actual pixel size. If you are ok with the blurring, there is no problem, of course.

The thing is that the AA-filtered image needs quite more sharpening than an AA-less one. You need to smart-sharpen detail and that's tricky.

Luminance noise is pretty high, even at base ISO (100). Though that's to be expected from such high-pixel-density sensor.

Here is a 100% crop from a single frame of a test stack. Shot in RAW, ACR default settings.

https://images2.imgbox.com/65/b9/dfh2dOut_o.jpg

The backgound at 200%:

https://images2.imgbox.com/15/d2/T4QSNgYI_o.jpg

- Macrero

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Chris R, are you sure that 0.2mm figure correct? Does it include everything? I had thought they were ten times thicker.

Adalbert
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Oleksandr,
Almost forgot another M3 problem which can be frustrating is that it skips IR shots from time to time... like every 100th shot is skipped. Not a big dial but hopefully wired M6II will not have that problem in my life anymore.
Yes, the M3 expects a very special IR-signal :-)

BTW, I would use such cable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-Audio-Spe ... Sw9HZblKKh
or this expensive one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-Male-to- ... SwKMRa4WiX

BR, ADi

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

Lou Jost wrote:Chris R, are you sure that 0.2mm figure correct? Does it include everything? I had thought they were ten times thicker.
I read the message that ChrisR was referring to the upgraded ultra think cover glass that is 0.2mm thick.

Sony factory sensor covers are 3+mm.

Best,

Robert

Macrero
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:17 am
Location: Valladolid , Spain

Post by Macrero »

MacroLab3D wrote:Macrero, your example looks terrible though. I wonder which shutter speed it was? It looks like more than 1 second. In which case it is usual stuff for M3. You simply never shoot with Tv longer than 1 sec and you will be fine :D.

Shutter speed is 1/25. That test stack was not ETTR'd, but was "well exposed". So, the "terrible" noise you see is just the native sensor noise at base ISO.

Image

No, I was not fine with the camera. If I was, I would not have returned it :P

Of course, that does not mean that others will not be fine with it.

Best,

- Macrero

Edit: Here is another 100% crop of a quite ETTR'd test stack frame:

https://images2.imgbox.com/8c/f3/IP2c6lv1_o.jpg

Image

This one look a tad better. But sharpness is far from great, and it is at 5.8X with 10/0.30 objective.
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hello Macrero,
Could you please show the stack completed?
BR, ADi

Macrero
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:17 am
Location: Valladolid , Spain

Post by Macrero »

Adalbert wrote:Hello Macrero,
Could you please show the stack completed?
BR, ADi
Here is the last one at full-res. Pre-sharpened and noise suppressed in-RAW. Straight out of Zerene (PMax):

https://images2.imgbox.com/57/f8/Y1HKh44m_o.jpg

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

MacroLab3D
Posts: 96
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Location: Ukraine

Post by MacroLab3D »

Thank you for the samples, Macrero. It looks perfect to me :D
A little bit overexposed maybe. This can be also a reason for a noise.
Looking great!
Adalbert, what is your thoughts on this?

Macrero
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:17 am
Location: Valladolid , Spain

Post by Macrero »

MacroLab3D wrote:Thank you for the samples, Macrero. It looks perfect to me :D
A little bit overexposed maybe. This can be also a reason for a noise.
Looking great!
Adalbert, what is your thoughts on this?
Glad to be of help.

The "overexposure" or ETTR actually results in less shot noise.

Does not look perfect to me, though. Noise is gone, but detail and sharpness are far from great.

Best,

- Macrero
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

Macrero wrote:
MacroLab3D wrote:Thank you for the samples, Macrero. It looks perfect to me :D
A little bit overexposed maybe. This can be also a reason for a noise.
Looking great!
Adalbert, what is your thoughts on this?
Glad to be of help.

The "overexposure" or ETTR actually results in less shot noise.

Does not look perfect to me, though. Noise is gone, but detail and sharpness are far from great.

Best,

- Macrero
This is correct, the M6 Mark II sensor is definitely the typical old style Canon sensor where ETTR is required for best results. ETTR results better SNR or less noise in the shadows.

Sensor technology is one area that Canon is years behind but thats another subject. :D



Image


Best,

Robert

Adalbert
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Macrero,
Many thanks for the link to the full stack!
It looks not bad even though you have chosen an extremely difficult subject for this test :-)
I took some photographs of the long, white scales some days ago and know the problem :-(
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/492 ... a012_o.jpg
In order to say that M6II produces more noise than other cameras we should compare the pictures.
It would be very helpful if someone showed an example created by the other “better” camera.
I’m afraid that nobody can deliver a stack with the higher quality than your stack.
Thus I would like invite everyone to present the stacks in order to compare them to the stacks taken by M6II.
Thank you in advance.
BR, ADi

Adalbert
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Robert,
This is correct, the M6 Mark II sensor is definitely the typical old style Canon sensor where ETTR is required for best results. ETTR results better SNR or less noise in the shadows.
if an old style chip produced high quality images wouldn’t be any problem for me :-)

BR, ADi

Macrero
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:17 am
Location: Valladolid , Spain

Post by Macrero »

Adalbert wrote:Hello Macrero,
Many thanks for the link to the full stack!
It looks not bad even though you have chosen an extremely difficult subject for this test :-)
I took some photographs of the long, white scales some days ago and know the problem :-(
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/492 ... a012_o.jpg
In order to say that M6II produces more noise than other cameras we should compare the pictures.
It would be very helpful if someone showed an example created by the other “betterâ€� camera.
I’m afraid that nobody can deliver a stack with the higher quality than your stack.
Thus I would like invite everyone to present the stacks in order to compare them to the stacks taken by M6II.
Thank you in advance.
BR, ADi
Adi,

To be honest, I would expect similar level of noise of any camera with 32MP crop sensor. Unfortunately, there is no other camera on the market with such sensor, so you cannot make a fair comparison.

If you compare say a Sony a7R II or III with the IV, the higher MP camera will show more detail/resolution, but also more noise at actual pixel size.

Now, my problem with the camera is not the noise per-se, but the conjunction of high noise and AA filter. So, you have to deal with noise and blurred detail at the same time. RAW converters are good nowadays, but cannot work miracles.

The best you can do is to buy the camera, try it, and if you are not happy with it, return it.

Best,

- Macrero
Last edited by Macrero on Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

Adalbert
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm

Post by Adalbert »

Hello Macrero,
there is no other camera on the market with such sensor, so you cannot make a fair comparison.
ILCE 7RIV or GFX100 should produce comparable results.
buy the camera, try it, and if you are not happy with it, return it
do you know anybody who can offer such service?

BR, ADi

Macrero
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:17 am
Location: Valladolid , Spain

Post by Macrero »

Not fully comparable though.

Any seller should accept returns on a brand new camera. I bought mine from e-Infinity (eBay). They accepted the return with no questions, also the return shipping address was a spanish one (Madrid).

Best,

- Macrero

Edit: no, that was another camera. The Canon was bought from DcTrade (eBay), I had to send it back to the UK.
Last edited by Macrero on Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
https://500px.com/macrero - Amateurs worry about equipment, Pros worry about money, Masters worry about Light

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