Leica stereo camera module--what am I misunderstanding

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Scarodactyl
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Leica stereo camera module--what am I misunderstanding

Post by Scarodactyl »

I recently had a chance to get three Leica 2 intergrated camera modules for their m series stereos (descendants of the Wild M series). along with some other bits and ends. These modules are very, very obsolete, so I thought it might be interesting to convert one into a trinocular port, ideally one for direct projection onto APS-C (my favorite). I've tried a similar conversion on my SMZ-U's side trinocular port which has had promising early results, though that will be its own thread once all the parts come in.

As I understand it, M series stereos are infinity corrected. The bottom objective focuses to infinity, as does the zoom module above it. The binocular head then has a pair of tube lenses at the bottom, which make an image that is picked up by the eyepieces. This makes sense both from what I've read about Leica stereos and with the way accessories introduced in between the zoom body and the binocular head do not increase magnification.

Here is the IC module, with the cover on and then removed:
Image
Image
With the above in mind, here are my thoughts on how this is laid out:
Image
1 is the beamsplitter, which allows half of the light to go through while half is redirected towards the camera.
2 is the tube lens, perhaps identical to the one in the bottom of a binocular head.
3 is a prism to get the light to turn that corner, and maybe to make sure the distance is correct.
4 is a reducing lens, much like any other for a small-sensor microscope camera.
5 is the camera sensor.
6 is an extra prism which does...something? I assume it makes the image in the other eye match, though it doesn't seem to visibly do anything. Very curious.

That all was about what I was expecting, except I was expecting them to use a different tube lens to directly project onto the small-sensor camera, not a pair of lenses. When I remove the camera and hold an eyepiece where the reducing lens (4) was it gives me a nice image that seems to capture the FoV nicely.

My thought was that, since the image is focused to infinity, it shouldn't matter too much how far it travels before it hits a tube lens (I know it does have some effect in tests of high-resolution lenses, but this is a stereo after all and that distance isn't respected by other accessories). So I could either remove the camera and the tube lens, and then introduce my own tube lens on the outside of the camera module to directly project onto my camera sensor, or I could move the tube lens to be just a bit further along the light path so it would project the image somewhere accessible outside of the module.
Both the camera and the tube lens are just held in with some screws, so removing them was very easy. However, it did not perform as I was expecting.
In this configuration:
Image
if I hold my aps-c camera up to the hole where the camera was, I get an image that is not parfocal but easily fills the sensor. But...
Image
In this configuration, I can get a focused image, but it is significantly smaller than the image in the other configuration. It contains the entire field of view, just shrunk down into a circle maybe half the diameter. I can't get it anywhere near the size it was in the first configuration even if I pull the camera way back. Sorry, no pictures since I was handholding it with the top of the module open in a dark room.
This has confused the heck out of me, and I'm wondering if anyone can point out where my thinking is wrong. Worst case I can probably put in some sort of ocular-sized hole so a normal eyepiece adapter can be used, but it's not what I was hoping for.

enricosavazzi
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Re: Leica stereo camera module--what am I misunderstanding

Post by enricosavazzi »

Scarodactyl wrote:[...]
6 is an extra prism which does...something? I assume it makes the image in the other eye match, though it doesn't seem to visibly do anything. Very curious.
[...]
The purpose of this prism is to have the light path to both eyepieces cross the same thickness of glass. The optical path length is different for light that passes through air versus glass, so without this prism the optical length of the two paths would not be the same, even though the physical distance would be the same.

I believe that the lenses along the optical path to the camera probably are some sort of telescope arrangement that changes the image size to fit the sensor size. One of the lenses, probably the first along the optical path, may also have the function of tube lens. The second may be regarded as a photo eyepiece.

Edit: The optics in (2) might be a flat plate of glass, rather than a converging or diverging lens. If so, the purpose may be to correct the axial chromatic aberration introduced by the prisms. Axial chromatic aberration is produced even when light crosses a flat plate with parallel entrance and exit surfaces, and even when the light is perpendicular to the surfaces. By adding a second plate with flat parallel faces of a different type of glass, this aberration can be corrected.
--ES

Scarodactyl
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Re: Leica stereo camera module--what am I misunderstanding

Post by Scarodactyl »

enricosavazzi wrote:
Scarodactyl wrote:[...]
6 is an extra prism which does...something? I assume it makes the image in the other eye match, though it doesn't seem to visibly do anything. Very curious.
[...]
The purpose of this prism is to have the light path to both eyepieces cross the same thickness of glass. The optical path length is different for light that passes through air versus glass, so without this prism the optical length of the two paths would not be the same, even though the physical distance would be the same.
Ah, ok that makes sense if axial CA is introduced by the other prism, they'd want them to match. I guess that's an above-and-beyond type of feature, since a nikon trinoc port I fixed a while back just left the other light path empty (perhaps it matters more o this one because it can't be switched over to eyepieces-only, but also doesn't have a prism on both sides like one of their surgical beamsplitters). Still, aside from the axial CA, the distance shouldn't technically matter, right?
enricosavazzi wrote:Edit: The optics in (2) might be a flat plate of glass, rather than a converging or diverging lens. If so, the purpose may be to correct the axial chromatic aberration introduced by the prisms.
I should have included a better picture, but it is definitely a lens. I tried placing it flat on the top of a zoom module where the tube lens sits in a stereo head, and holding an eyepiece above it freehand produced a good, correctly-sized image, so I think it may be specced exactly the same as one at the bottom of a binocular head. Then as you say the next lens is basically a tiny photo eyepiece, or one of those reducing lenses anyway. The guys at Leica are not idiots so I assume they had a reason to do it this way, but I really would have thought direct projection would be easier. Maybe it's just cheaper to use lenses you already have in stock?

Rorschach
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Post by Rorschach »

A bit off-topic but this thread got me thinking that perhaps it would be possible to stack two Wild/Leica photoports, one over the left beam and the other over the right one? The idea would be to get stereoscopic 3D images, of course. The relay lenses etc. and the two cameras and their setings would need to be identical, naturally.

However, I am not sure what sort of viewing device would be required. I think I have a Pentax stereo photo set that is intended for their SLRs and it most likely had a simple viewing device intended for printed stereo pair images.

Scarodactyl
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Post by Scarodactyl »

Wild made a stereo photo head for the m5, though you can't have a head on at the same time. It's probably easier to get a Nikon smz-10 which switches between which side the trinoc port pulls from with a lever if stereo pairs are the goal.

Rorschach
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Post by Rorschach »

Scarodactyl wrote:Wild made a stereo photo head for the m5, though you can't have a head on at the same time. It's probably easier to get a Nikon smz-10 which switches between which side the trinoc port pulls from with a lever if stereo pairs are the goal.
Interesting, I didn't know that such a thing existed for Wild. Too bad it's not for the M3/M8/M10 line.

I had that Nikon for a short while but its head was out of alignment so I gave the whole scope away for free. I think fixing miss aligned prisms is quite firmly beyond my skills :-)

Edit: stupid me! Of course I should have thought of the Wild beam splitter. Usually you see these equipped with a camera adapter arm on one side and either a monocular or binocular attachment for a second viewer on the other side. However, there's nothing stopping one from attaching an identical camera arm on both sides. I even have the beam splitter, although just one camera arm to it.

Scarodactyl
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Post by Scarodactyl »

That is a pain for sure. Fortunately they seem to come up for really good prices from time to time.
A better option for the main M series would be a surgical beamsplitter, since both sides get an equal 50% light transmission, though the camera adapter situation would be a nontrivial challenge.

Rorschach
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Post by Rorschach »

Yes, that is the splitter that I meant and which I have.

Scarodactyl
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Post by Scarodactyl »

Haha, I guess was writing my post as you edited yours. Synchronous brainwave I guess. That being said, I do have an smz-10 and haven't made any stereo pairs, just swapped sides to pick the best lighting. The smz-u has two photo ports as well, and you can get a dual port for the smz-800/1000/1500 too.

Rorschach
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Post by Rorschach »

Great minds think alike as they say :-)

I think I will pursue the Wild surgical bean splitter route. Will only act if I stumble on a extra camera arm/port at a really good price, though. So this plan might not proceed very swiftly :-D

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