(LSA || DCR150 || ITL200) ? FF : CROP

Have questions about the equipment used for macro- or micro- photography? Post those questions in this forum.

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RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

Rik,

Missed the words in bold the first time!
rjlittlefield wrote:
RobertOToole wrote: I did try almost all the longer tube lenses and they worked the same way as the DCR-150 with much more detail and sharpness. This worked very well with the Century, and the Sigma, off the top of my head.
When I wrote much more detail, I meant only when the two images are viewed normally side by side. Looking back I should have added; when one image is reduced in size to match, the difference is not nearly as large.

Robert

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

RobertOToole wrote:Then I processed both files with the same settings and as a last step I downsized the infinity image to the same size as the short focus image using the normal default PS CS bicubic sharper (reduction) command as I would normally to reduce an image in size.

When I compared these at 100% view in PS, I do see more detail in the short focus image when compared with the infinity focus image.
There is, of course, a complementary test: upsample the lower mag image and compare that to the original higher mag image. My expectation is that when you do that, you'll again see that the resampled image does not compare well against the non-resampled one.
So my personal preference would be to go with a short focus past infinity image for the maximum amount of details and sharpness.
I think the preference depends on whether you're making an image in general, or an image of something in particular. If you don't mind widening the FOV, then I agree that you can get a sharper image, with more details in frame, by using a short tube lens or a short focus setup in order to pack as much detail as possible onto the sensor. But if you're interested in some particular FOV, then my own recommendation is to use whatever tube lens and/or focus tweak is needed to fill the sensor with that FOV. The resulting image will not look as sharp at actual pixels, but it will probably reveal more detail on subject.

As an example, if I'm OK with shooting 4 mm FOV, then the sharpest 5X in my arsenal is Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 10X NA 0.28 on 100 mm tube lens. You know, 5X NA 0.28 is hard to beat! But if my subject is really only 2 mm long, I'm better off to use that 10X on a normal length tube lens, giving around 10X magnification. That will certainly show more detail on subject than the 5X configuration does, even though the 10X image does not look as sharp at 100% pixels.

--Rik

Saul
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Post by Saul »

rjlittlefield wrote:...Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 10X NA 0.28 on 100 mm tube lens...
Hi Rik,
What 100mm tube lens you are using ?

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Saul wrote:What 100mm tube lens you are using ?
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM .

--Rik

Saul
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Post by Saul »

rjlittlefield wrote:
Saul wrote:What 100mm tube lens you are using ?
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM .

--Rik
Thanks, Rik, I hoped that will be some magical compact tube lens :(
On the Thorlabs website I saw ITL100 tube lens, anybody tried it ?

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hi Rik, hi Saul,
My best tube-lenses I have used up to now are:
1.) Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM
2.) Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM
Sometimes stacked by AF (by the usage of the Magic Lantern or Camera Connect :-)
BR, ADi

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

Saul wrote:
rjlittlefield wrote:
Saul wrote:What 100mm tube lens you are using ?
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM .

--Rik
Thanks, Rik, I hoped that will be some magical compact tube lens :(
On the Thorlabs website I saw ITL100 tube lens, anybody tried it ?
Hi Saul,

Somewhere on the Thorlabs site they say that the shorter tubes are OEM parts made by Olympus. Not that this is a bad thing.

Now we just need a volunteer to try one!

Robert

dmillard
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Post by dmillard »

Adalbert wrote:Hello everybody,
Has anybody tested the tube-lenses 360mm / 300mm / 240mm ?
Hello Adalbert,

I had hoped to do show you a comparison between some large format lenses in those focal lengths, but unfortunately found I had misplaced a few important components for my Aristophot stand, which I have neglected for the last few years in lieu of a Nikon UM-2 with Olympus head. So I cobbled together sufficient, but less than rigid, extension with an attached Nikon PB-6 bellows and a combination of Nikon K rings and Chinese 56.5mm extension tubes to do a quick test. I'll be out of town for the next week, but will do more rigorous comparisons when I return. These micrometer scale images were taken with a Sony A7Rii and a Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 10/0.28 objective, with approximately 60mm extension from the front edge of each lens barrel to the shoulder of the objective. Each lens was focused at infinity. The light was provided by two Vivitar 283 flashes, triggered by a Yongnuo controller, and diffused with a cylinder of Leelux 400. I adjusted the levels in Photoshop, and sharpened the images slightly before resizing and saving as JPEGs (85%, 0.5 pixel radius).

While nowhere near as elegant as Jörgen's butterfly scales, I think these will at least show the uniform performance over the full frame that these lenses offer. The slight darkening in the very corners is mechanical vignetting from a paper Waterhouse stop that I had inadvertently left in the barrel mount into which I was placing the lens cells; if it had been removed, the corners would be unaffected.

Image
Apo-Ronar 240mm f/9, m=11.85X

Image
Apo-Ronar 300mm f/9, m=14.71X

Image
Nikkor-M 300mm f/9, m=14.96X

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

To add to David's tests, here are some Atlas moth scales using the Nikon 300mm f/4.5 ED-IF (focused at infinity) as the tube lens for the Mitutoyo 7.5x and 10x on my Pentax K-1 (a full-frame 36Mp camera). When looking at these results, remember that a 100% crop of these images corresponds to a smaller fraction of the image than a 100% crop on an APS or MFT sensor.

First the Mitu 7.5x, using pixel shift mode. These are stacked jpgs (Zerene PMax) straight from the camera, except for minor exposure and color adjustments.

Whole image:
Image

100% crop near center:
Image

100% crop of the top left extreme corner:
Image

10x Mitutoyo, no pixel-shifting on this one:
Image

100% crop between center and edge:
Image

Extreme bottom right corner:
Image

JH
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Post by JH »

Nice presentations, thanks Lou Jost and dmillard!
I thought that my tube lens hunting days sadly ended... but now I just need to find a 300mm and a 240mm. :D

Best regards
Jörgen Hellberg
Jörgen Hellberg, my webbsite www.hellberg.photo

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hi David,
Many thanks for the test!
Can you change the power of the Vivitar 283? If yes, which value have you used?
I’m asking for that because your diffuser of Leelux 400 absorbs a lot of light.
BTW, what is a paper Waterhouse stop ?
BR, ADi

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hi Lou,
Very nice moth scales!
May I use the Nikon 300mm f/4.5 ED with the NIKON CFI60 (eg. LU PLANs ) ?
BR, ADi

Adalbert
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Post by Adalbert »

Hi Jörgen,
I’m hunting too :-)
At the moment I only can combine 200mm with the 1,5 tele-converter.
BR, ADi

Lou Jost
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Post by Lou Jost »

Thanks Jorgen and Adalbert. Any infinity objective that works at 200mm on APS should do well (edit: no better and no worse) with the 300mm on FF.

I will soon test this Nikon 300mm against the Canon 300mm f/2.8 fluorite lens (old manual FD version), which should be exquisite. Unfortunately it does not have filter threads, to my surprise. I may have to epoxy some adapters to the rubberized lens rim, which will destroy its resale value. The front element is huge, >114mm diameter.

The Nikon 400mm f/5.6 is also a very good tube lens, perhaps better than the Nikon 300.
Last edited by Lou Jost on Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

dmillard
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Post by dmillard »

Adalbert wrote:Hi Lou,
Very nice moth scales!
I agree - excellent illustrations of the capabilities of the lens and the camera!

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