Nikon D850 Specs are Official

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RobertOToole
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Nikon D850 Specs are Official

Post by RobertOToole »

So the D850 is official and specs look great.

Highlights:

45.70 Megapixels

Same AF system as the D5

backside-illuminated (BSI) sensor

One stop improvement in noise over the D810

Same DR as the D810.

EFCS does not require mirror lock-up.

Same price as the D810, $3300 USD in the US.

Shipping first week in Sept.

Sensor pixel size is 4.35 µm

FYI:
D810 4.88 µm
D500 4.2 µm
A7 RII 4.51 µm
5DsR 4.14µm
5D MKIV 5.36µm

See the Nikon Q&A at Image resource:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/n ... TM#q-and-a

Ordered one last week :-)


Robert

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Post by RobertOToole »

Other D850 tech specs of interest for macro photography

-Still picture "Silent shooting" in Live-view uses a full electronic shutter, both front and rear curtains
-Revised shutter and mirror mechanism, the first Nikon equipped with a shutter counter balancer.

In the DPreview hands on review, the user seemed to think that Nikon did improve shutter vibration over the D810.

Link:
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon- ... s-review/4

-Focus shift stacking up to 300 images using AF
-Focus shift smallest increment is equal to the focal length of the lens divided by 30.
-Larger viewfinder
-Focus peaking in live-view mode
-"Pinpoint AF" in live-view for close-up shooting with AF point 1/4 size of normal.


Robert

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Post by ChrisR »

"the finest gradation (a setting of 1) equates to a focus step equal to the lens focal length divided by 30. So with a 100mm lens, the smallest step would be a distance of 3.3mm, and the largest one 30mm. "

Oh dear!
This may be inappropriately applied maths, but, approximately:
100mm FL lens,
Choose "1" = 3mm focus increments.

Assuming you want to be not diffraction limited, that's
Repro ratio 1:4 ie 0.25x
Aperrture f/8
Pixels/CofC 2.5
DOF (matching difraction blur) 3.5mm.

FIeld of view minimum 4 x (24 X 36) = 96 x 144mm.
Hand sized.. not bug sized.

Your subject can be 3 x 300 = 900 mm deep though, plus 20mm or so for the extra DoF at 900mm.

It would be more bug-friendly if it did 0.3mm focus steps, near 1:1.
Perhaps a firmware update may address that.
One obvious workaround would be to use coupled lenses ( a short one reversed on the front of the long one), but you may not get 45MP resolution.


If you create 24MP images, (ie less resolution) you can change to f/16 and get about half life size.

Could someone check the maths, please? I'd like to be wrong.

Where it may be very good is with with Nikkor AF lens as a "tube" lens and say a 5x objective.
Chris R

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

AA filter?

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

ray_parkhurst wrote:AA filter?
No AA (optical low pass) filter Ray.

Robert

ray_parkhurst
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Post by ray_parkhurst »

OK, so this camera is very intriguing. No AA filter, like the 810. No need for double shutter releases. In fact, it sounds like it is fully electronic when in Live View and does not cycle the mirror or the shutter at all:

"Improved silent shooting mode: fully-silent, no-sound electronic shutter in live view"

It sounds like the camera I have been waiting for!

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Post by Lou Jost »

Sounds pretty good, finally a truly silent shutter!!

mawyatt
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Post by mawyatt »

Seems Nikon finally listened to some of the users and incorporated a few of those requests!!

Will be interesting to see how the silent shutter and flash work together, soon we shall see :D

Best,

Mike

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Post by mawyatt »

Robert,

If the noise floor has been lowered as indicated, and the upper full level of the pixel limitations and/or amplifier-analog-digital converter saturation levels haven't changed, then the Dynamic Range should be greater than the D810. If the pixel full level changed (lower) as well as the lower noise floor then the DR might be similar.

Now if Nikon can do this with a smaller pixel area, reducing the noise floor and holding the full level, that is impressive! Might be a benefit of the back side illumination, which the D810 sensor isn't.

Once a photon is captured and converted into an electron in the pixel, the following system analysis follows classic electronic analysis. So for one to improve the dynamic range of an already leading performance camera system with a smaller pixel area (larger shot noise) is impressive. Being an engineer/scientist it would be interesting to see what techniques Nikon used to do this.

BTW I did read that this new D850 BSI sensor is not a Sony sensor, Nikon designed the sensor and it may be fabricated somewhere else (Toshiba, Micron, Samsung, ??).

Best,

Mike

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Post by RobertOToole »

Hi Mike,
mawyatt wrote:
If the noise floor has been lowered as indicated, and the upper full level of the pixel limitations and/or amplifier-analog-digital converter saturation levels haven't changed, then the Dynamic Range should be greater than the D810. If the pixel full level changed (lower) as well as the lower noise floor then the DR might be similar.

Now if Nikon can do this with a smaller pixel area, reducing the noise floor and holding the full level, that is impressive! Might be a benefit of the back side illumination, which the D810 sensor isn't.
If Nikon did manage to give the D850 the same DR as the D810 it would be an accomplishment. I hope you are right that there may be a chance for an improvement even. Either way its a win for Nikon users and everyone else as the performance will force the others like Canon to improve.
mawyatt wrote:
Once a photon is captured and converted into an electron in the pixel, the following system analysis follows classic electronic analysis. So for one to improve the dynamic range of an already leading performance camera system with a smaller pixel area (larger shot noise) is impressive. Being an engineer/scientist it would be interesting to see what techniques Nikon used to do this.

BTW I did read that this new D850 BSI sensor is not a Sony sensor, Nikon designed the sensor and it may be fabricated somewhere else (Toshiba, Micron, Samsung, ??).
Hopefully we will not have to wait very long to find out more about the sensor since they are supposed to shipping soon.

For my work shooting both Canon and Nikon the newer ISO-less or ISO-invariant sensor designs are a huge advantage in wildlife photography. So I really hope the D850 has the same characteristic.

All the best,

Robert

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

I wonder how long it will take for someone (Nikon, CMN, etc) to publish control software for the D850 that allows viewing Live View on-screen? I mean via USB, not HDMI. That was what held me back from the D810 for so long, lack of software support.

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Post by ChrisR »

Everyone "testing" seems to be reworking the information published in various places.
Here's one with things we mostly know, but also some snippets filled in that I hadn't read before:

16) Electronic Front-Curtain Shutter

The Nikon D850 retains the same electronic front-curtain shutter (EFCS) mode that is also available on the Nikon D810, which should allow one to take images without introducing camera shake. While EFCS still works in Mirror Up mode, Nikon has also extended the EFCS feature to both quiet and quiet continuous shooting modes, which is great! This means that when using the silent shooting mode in live view mode, taking a picture will not trigger the shutter mechanism and cause vibrations. This was one of my biggest complaints with the D810 and I am very happy to see that it has been finally addressed by Nikon!
17) Silent Shutter Mode

Nikon has introduced a new “Silent Shutter” mode to the D850, which allows the camera to take advantage of the electronic shutter when using the camera in live view mode. What’s great about this mode, is that it not only completely eliminates any kind of shutter (since the mirror is raised and the shutter is open), but also allows photographers to stay discreet when shooting wildlife or when taking pictures during a wedding ceremony in a church. When shooting continuously, the Nikon D850 can capture up to 6 fps at full 45.7 MP resolution and if one switches to high speed mode, it is possible to reach up to 30 fps at 8.8 MP in DX crop.
Chris R

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Post by ray_parkhurst »

So when Live View is active, the camera becomes a defacto MILC.

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Post by ChrisR »

No need to tape the mirror up like Lou does ;)
Chris R

RobertOToole
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Post by RobertOToole »

ChrisR wrote:Everyone "testing" seems to be reworking the information published in various places.
Here's one with things we mostly know, but also some snippets filled in that I hadn't read before:

16) Electronic Front-Curtain Shutter

The Nikon D850 retains the same electronic front-curtain shutter (EFCS) mode that is also available on the Nikon D810, which should allow one to take images without introducing camera shake. While EFCS still works in Mirror Up mode, Nikon has also extended the EFCS feature to both quiet and quiet continuous shooting modes, which is great! This means that when using the silent shooting mode in live view mode, taking a picture will not trigger the shutter mechanism and cause vibrations. This was one of my biggest complaints with the D810 and I am very happy to see that it has been finally addressed by Nikon!
17) Silent Shutter Mode

Nikon has introduced a new “Silent Shutter” mode to the D850, which allows the camera to take advantage of the electronic shutter when using the camera in live view mode. What’s great about this mode, is that it not only completely eliminates any kind of shutter (since the mirror is raised and the shutter is open), but also allows photographers to stay discreet when shooting wildlife or when taking pictures during a wedding ceremony in a church. When shooting continuously, the Nikon D850 can capture up to 6 fps at full 45.7 MP resolution and if one switches to high speed mode, it is possible to reach up to 30 fps at 8.8 MP in DX crop.
These quotes leave out a couple of points that I think are pretty interesting.

The D850 shutter is all new and the first Nikon with a counter balancer. This is also a welcome change from the D810.

From the Nikon site:
".....equipped with a shutter counter balancer for the first time. By moving the shutter front curtain and the balancer in the opposite direction and canceling out the vibrations"

The D850 has both front and rear electronic shutter ability. So you can run lots of stacks without any additional shutter wear.

From the Nikon site:
"Still picture "Silent shooting" using the electronic shutter for both the front curtain and the back curtain at live view is possible. .....it is effective when you want to eliminate mechanism blur such as shooting in a quiet place such as an art museum, wedding ceremony, scenery with a super telephoto lens, astrophotography.

...."Interval timer shooting" can be used with "silent shooting". Without worrying about the durability of the mechanical shutter, you can shoot a large amount of material with silence"...


One question comes to mind, I wonder if the D850 will be able to flash sync in silent shooting mode?

Older Nikon SLR bodies with full electronic shutters, the D50, D70 etc, could sync flash up to 1/4000th sec. no problem.

Robert

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