Nikon E600 Upgrade Questions

KurtM · Post by **KurtM** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:08 pm

Greetings, all: I have been into microscopy as a hobby most of my adult life (56 now), but have never been too technologically astute, just have fun with it. I've mostly used vintage AO-Spencer stuff, current workhorse is an AO 120 with phase contrast and POL capability, converted to LED.

Last summer I fell into a great deal on a Nikon Eclipse 600:

There are a few things I want to get for this scope: trinoc head, phase contrast, POL, and ultimately, my dream of DIC. But I have not made any progress figuring out how to get these things; I don't understand all the different Nikon models, when it went from 160TL to infinity, or how to find out. I need a mentor to help me along, and learn how to target the correct components on eBay or wherever they may be found.

Yes, I know this is bound to be more expensive than AO-Spencer stuff, but I'm hoping for better quality views to make it worth it. Thank you!

Choronzon · Post by **Choronzon** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:32 am

Kurt, I can help you with that. What are you looking to upgrade first, and what kind of budget do you have? I'm not a dealer, just someone who buys on ebay all the time. I know what's a good deal, and what isn't. Also, I've been a service tech for microscopes all my life, now 62 years old.

KurtM · Post by **KurtM** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:04 am

You sound like just the sort of help I'm looking for, thanks for responding.

I never thought about upgrades in order. I'm used to it being a matter of get-as-get-can, sorting through deals as they pop up on eBay, and pouncing where necessary. If I were picking and choosing out of catalogs, I suppose the order might trinoc head, then POL accessories, then phase contrast and/or DIC gear. But if the trinoc head comes last as I hold out for a better deal, it's just part of the game in my world. I'm well versed in cobbling AO/Spencer systems together from components purchased off eBay, and know what works with what. The main question now is learning my way around Nikon bits and pieces so I can know what's compatible with the E600 and what isn't.

Budget is tough to answer because I really don't know how much this stuff should cost, or where to get it. I assume eBay is where, but how much I'm willing to spend, well, not sure yet, but have ~$4K that could go that direction. Possibly more depending on what I see? Probably around $5K would be top end (makes me sweat a little to write that).

I also want to consider other possibilities, such as whether it's more cost effective to build upon this E600, or buy a whole new stand that already has a trinoc head, DIC, etc., and then sell the E600?

PS: I just wanted to mention that I've been on photomacography.net for a few years as a lurker until now, so I'm tolerably familiar with this site and the fine folks on it.

zzffnn · Post by **zzffnn** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:43 am

Kurt,

Choronzon is our expert here - help does not get much better than what he offers. He has helped me a lot. In my eyes, he knows Nikon (and other brands) like Phil knows AO Spencer and B&L.

You can DIY polarized microscope using two linear polarizers (one above condenser, one in scope head):

This type will work:
http://m.edmundoptics.com/optics/polari ... ters/53347

Optitec2020 sells polarizer sets for many brands, but not your E600. Also the analyzer he sold me is not made of glass. So DIY may be a better choice for you.

Since you already have 2 sets of AO phase contrast, maybe focus on DIC first? Of course, if budget allows, it probably does not matter which first.

KurtM · Post by **KurtM** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:56 am

Hey Fan, thanks for the input!

You're right of course, since I already have two phase outfits I should concentrate on DIC. It occurs to me, however, that the Nikon phase optics might be higher quality than the older AO optics (less halo thus higher resolution?). In any case, at this stage of the game I really need to do a cost analysis on all options; but before I can do that I must learn to navigate the seas of Nikon microscopes and accessories so I can know what's compatible with the E600 and what isn't.

Yes, setting up DIY POL is easy, have done it before. But I prefer the factory accessories since you can conveniently switch in and out of POL.

zzffnn · Post by **zzffnn** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:42 pm

Kurt,

It helps to specify what you want and don't want (for example, you don't want DIY Pol).

It seems that Nikon offers 33 phase contrast objectives for E600 (none of which can be used for DIC, if you don't already know): http://www.nikoninstruments.com/Product ... e-Selector

Are you sure you would still use phase, once you have DIC? I know some DIC owners abandoned their phase completely. Or if you like looking at super thin subjects like cilia, you may still prefer phase over DIC?

I read that CFI60 optics will work for E600 for sure, but not sure about other infinity series.

Page 12 of the following PDF shows you what E600's DIC set and phase set look like: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... dxmhxI8Mew

I would leave the details to experts to explain.

Less phase halo does not always mean higher resolution though, as NA and phase plate in objective also plays a role. For example, AO offers B Minus phase objectives that do not produce much halo, but their resolution is limited by their optical design. Sample thickness also affects image quality quite a bit.

KurtM · Post by **KurtM** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:50 pm

DIC is my first choice by far. Phase contrast is an alternative in case DIC proves unobtainable due to cost or availability. I will continue using DIY POL until I get the factory accessories.

Sorry if I was unclear.

Choronzon · Post by **Choronzon** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:35 am

Kurt,
If it’s DIC you’re after, it will take a while to find all the bits and pieces to make a working system. Right now, on ebay, there is an E600 DIC nosepiece, but the seller is asking too much; over $800 or best offer. Search the same thing in completed listings and you will see that in the recent past, they have sold for much less.
You will need that nosepiece plus the C-CU Universal condenser, which is very hard to find, but not impossible. You can also search for that condenser on ebay overseas and see if they ship internationally. Nikon has discontinued it, so no chance of just buying a new one. Then, you will need the senarmont polarizer that clamps over the light well below the condenser, and also the analyzer Y-DA which inserts above the nosepiece. The individual DIC prisms for this system are probably the easy part of the search, and you only need to find them one by one. There is an informative thread on Eclipse DIC here: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=13715
Google is your best friend when searching for things like these, if you know their names. All my years of searching for several dream systems are at the end now for me; I’ve found them all, so I can let everyone in on a secret I’ve used to find things at far below what they sell for on ebay. When I google something rare, like a Zeiss Axiomat, I’ll open images and look for items and what site they’re on. A lot of times they’re on a surplus auction site where they usually go for very cheap, as the only bidders are wholesalers, who then put them on ebay either parting them out, or selling complete with ridiculous asking prices. I found a complete Axiomat in Houston that way several years ago. It was unsold after the auction, so I got it for $500.
If you google things like Nikon E600, all sorts of images come up, and if you’re persistent, maybe you can buy the complete or semi complete microscope then sell the parts you don’t need.
That’s also an excellent way to end up with dozens of things you can’t bear to part with, so be warned.

zzffnn · Post by **zzffnn** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:55 am

Choronzon,

I used Google image search and surplus sites too. But many surplus site do not ship to individuals or don't ship at all. What is your secret on that

Choronzon · Post by **Choronzon** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:41 pm

I hire a shipping service, or use one of my contacts nationwide to fetch it for me until I'm in town. Then I'll either ship it myself when I'm there, or drive it back to Chicago.

KurtM · Post by **KurtM** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:31 am

Choronzon wrote:There is an informative thread on Eclipse DIC here: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=13715

I discovered that thread some months ago, was unable to follow much of what was said because I had so little basic understanding. But I went through it again after your post and found it all much clearer in my head, so I'm making progress. I believe my original questions are being answered, and not in an encouraging direction. Looks like outfitting the E600 with DIC is a tedious way to take too long to spend too much.

Where's a good old Zeiss Universal DIC stand when you want one?

aidanmoore · Post by **aidanmoore** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:41 pm

Hi,

I'm also considering a do it yourself DIC setup using the Nikon Eclipse series.

I've noticed that the most difficult component to source is the "Universal C-CU Condenser" and associated discs.

Would a Nikon Universa Con. A Achr-Apo 1.4 Condensor work? It has positions for 20, 40 and 100 DIC . Picture attached

Thanks

Aidan