May I please get some help locating the parts for a 10x rig?

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Dabsmith
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:28 pm

May I please get some help locating the parts for a 10x rig?

Post by Dabsmith »

Hello from Colorado!

I've been a fan of the work produced here for many years and have slowly been gathering the knowledge and parts needed to produce similar imagery for my respective field of work.

Pictured below is what I currently have. Nikon D800, cheapy bellows, kenko extension tubes and for the sake of this thread - a Raynox DCR-150

Image

I am ready to pull the trigger on a Nikon 10x objective and the respective pieces required to adapt it with the Raynox DCR-150 and existing kit.

Kindly asking for some help so I don't end up waiting on parts for a week only to find out they're somehow wrong for the application. As well as identifying the proper Nikon 10x objective, there seems to be several vintages on eBay.

I appreciate you taking a look at the very least.

Thanks and have a groovy day!

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Dabsmith, welcome aboard!

I gather that your Raynox DCR-150 is still inside that box, because the lens on the end of the bellows looks like something entirely different.

I assume that your bellows and Kenko tubes are Nikon bayonet.

For reference, one illustrative chain of adapter rings based on M42 threads is shown at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 195#143195, items 3-11.

However, that link shows use with an APS-C sized sensor. With your D800 full-frame sensor, the cone adapter item #10 should be replaced with a flat adapter, to avoid vignetting.

You can also reduce the part count by removing M42 components (42x1 mm) and replacing them with functional equivalents using all 52mm x 0.75mm standard filter threads.

So for you, I suggest an adapter chain that goes like this:

1. Your current bellows & tubes.

2. Nikon-bayonet-to-male-52mm "reversing ring", such as http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Reverse- ... B001G4NBSC. (eBay has many cheaper equivalents.)

3. 49mm male to 52mm female step-up ring, installed in reverse to fit the Raynox lens.

4. Raynox lens, reversed so as to put its infinity-focus side facing the objective.

5. 52mm male to 43mm female step-down ring (installed in reverse to fit the Raynox lens). eBay offers many of these, found by searching for "43mm 52mm step-down ring". Just be sure that you're really getting step-down, so the 52mm is male (external thread) and the 43mm is female (internal thread).

6. 55mm male to 52mm female step-down ring, used here as a 52mm female to 52mm female reversing adapter. (Be sure you get one whose 52mm internal thread goes clear through the ring. The 55mm male thread is not used.)

6.5 (optional). 52mm extension tube, such as HERE (14mm) or HERE (28mm). This moves the objective farther away from the Raynox, which may slightly improve corner quality though with greater risk of corner darkening on full-frame. I do not have examples at hand.

7. 52mm male to 25mm female adapter ring to fit the objective. Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-CFI-M25-m ... 0287554493

Part #7 must have threads that fit the objective. Different objectives have different threads.

The Nikon objective most suitable for you is probably the gold-barrel CFI Plan Achromat 10X NA 0.25 WD 10.5 mm, shown at http://www.seoenterprises.com/shop/prod ... 257&page=1. That source is for a new objective, no concerns about the objective having been damaged by a prior owner, and ironically, it's cheaper than most ebay prices for the same part.

That particular objective has 25mm threads, hence the choice of 25mm for item #7.

However, calling your attention to another point you may care about...

All of the various Nikon 10X objectives that I have experience with show a fairly large amount of longitudinal chromatic aberration. This mostly appears as blue/yellow haze, especially in slightly out-of-focus regions. It is particularly bad with black-and-white or metallic subjects. An example is shown at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 672#147672. This problem can be avoided by using the Mitutoyo M Plan Apo 10X NA 0.28 objective, which has the added advantage of providing much more working distance (33.5 mm). The downside is mainly that the Mitutoyo is significantly more expensive ($885 new from Edmund Optics). If that is within budget, and you're sensitive to CA, then I would strongly recommend getting the Mitutoyo instead. Note however that the Mitutoyo has a different thread, 26mm x 36 tpi, so in that case you'll be needing a different item #7, such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/BD-M26-36tpi-mi ... 0436592235.

--Rik

pontop
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Post by pontop »

Beware that the Kenko tubes may cause vignetting. That was the case for me with raynox lenses on the full frame Eos 6D. A set of cheap non-automatic tubes fixed that.

/Bo

Dabsmith
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:28 pm

Post by Dabsmith »

Rik, thank you kindly for the welcome as well as the detailed and money saving response!

From what I can see with the CA example you linked on B&W I might have to avoid the Nikon lineup altogether.

My subject matter is cannabis flowers and extracts, both highly reflective surfaces. The goal is to gain magnification and clarity for art prints so the CA would ruin it.

Any issues with the Mitutoyo? It looks stunning in the example with Raynox in comparison to the Nikons.

Thanks again, I'm excited!

Dabsmith
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:28 pm

Post by Dabsmith »

pontop wrote:Beware that the Kenko tubes may cause vignetting. That was the case for me with raynox lenses on the full frame Eos 6D. A set of cheap non-automatic tubes fixed that.

/Bo
Thanks, the auto features are pretty worthless in any setup I've used so I'll grab a few sets of those simplified tube sets.

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Dabsmith wrote:Any issues with the Mitutoyo?
None in normal practice. The Mitutoyo series is a treat to work with. Only significant drawback is the price.

For an example of full frame Mitutoyo in real life, see http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=19430. That one is 20X instead of 10X, but except for magnification they work very much the same.

--Rik

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

Dabsmith - Hi.
An objective Rik didn't specifically mention this time is the Nikon BE 10X. At about a tenth of the new price of a Mitutoyo (New from Nikon) it's well worth consideration.
If you aren't familiar with longitudinal Chromatic Aberration, Rik's test pictures may look more alarming than "real" subjexts would ever show. Where you cover your subject with in-focus frames, you don't tend to see it, and most odd features which do show it, can be cerrected fairly easily.

Dabsmith
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:28 pm

Post by Dabsmith »

ChrisR wrote:Dabsmith - Hi.
An objective Rik didn't specifically mention this time is the Nikon BE 10X. At about a tenth of the new price of a Mitutoyo (New from Nikon) it's well worth consideration.
If you aren't familiar with longitudinal Chromatic Aberration, Rik's test pictures may look more alarming than "real" subjexts would ever show. Where you cover your subject with in-focus frames, you don't tend to see it, and most odd features which do show it, can be cerrected fairly easily.
Hello ChrisR!

Thanks for the information. Do you have a purchase link to the objective you mentioned?

I went ahead and ordered all of the adapting parts last night and will decide on the objective today most likely.

The images I found produced with the Mitutoyo range are simply stunning, both the magnification and resolution are what I'm expecting when making the leap to an objective.

Perhaps it's not a bad idea if the objective you mentioned is so affordable in comparison to give it a shot and see what it can accomplish.

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

Sure: in the FAQ http://photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27205.

Be warned, the hardware is the easy bit in the quest for fine imagery. The hard bit is the mushware (approx 4 inches behind the viewfinder) .
The guys who do good with one lens could produce an almost identical image with the other.

Dabsmith
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Post by Dabsmith »

ChrisR wrote:Sure: in the FAQ http://photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27205.

Be warned, the hardware is the easy bit in the quest for fine imagery. The hard bit is the mushware (approx 4 inches behind the viewfinder) .
The guys who do good with one lens could produce an almost identical image with the other.
Thanks!

That's encouraging! http://www.billynarephotography.com is my brand's website in development. Getting creative with light and having fun in post production is most of the fun!

Any major differences between the Nikon BE 10x and the gold barrel 10x Rik mentioned?

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Dabsmith wrote:Any major differences between the Nikon BE 10x and the gold barrel 10x Rik mentioned?
The CFI BE (part number MRN70100) is physically much smaller, with RMS threads and only 6.7 mm working distance (compared to 10.5 mm for the gold barrel MRL00102 and 33.5 mm for the Mitutoyo). The CFI BE is what I use to show people the concept when I want to avoid overwhelming them. It can definitely do some good work. One of my favorite images is the specially prepared blowfly at http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=16348, shot with the CFI BE 10X pushed down to 5X on an APS-C sensor.

The CFI BE is an excellent way to get your toes wet in working with high magnification, without spending a lot of money.

That said, if you're committed to producing art prints using a D800 and budget is not a huge problem, then I'd recommend jumping straight for the Mitutoyo. In the (unlikely?) case that you decide this world is not for you, then you can resell the Mitutoyo for a substantial fraction of its original price, especially if you can vouch for its history of safe handling and show off a good image or two that was made with it.

--Rik

Dabsmith
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:28 pm

Post by Dabsmith »

Thanks again Rik!

I had a feeling it was the way I was going to go last night when ordering the appropriate thread adapter for it.

Going to order the Mitutoyo 10x and enjoy the 33.5mm WD right off the bat. It'll pay for itself for sure.

Saw some dudes building rigs that look like the price of sports cars, got a feeling despite my current technical understanding of how to build my own rails and whatnot that it'll be happening with the help of some engineering savvy friends.

Just getting started LOL

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Dabsmith wrote:Saw some dudes building rigs that look like the price of sports cars
This sort of photography is kind of a strange domain.

To work comfortably at high magnification you need quite a bit of stuff -- a comfortable budget might list $1000 for focusing, $1000 for specimen positioning, $1000 for illumination, and $1000 for each lens, plus your camera and computer. The system described HERE is titled "Build a World-Class Insect Imaging System for under $6,000", but while it's quite good for that user's task I think "world class" is a bit overstated. The system only goes to 5X on sensor, with step size limited to a couple of microns, and specimen positioning only by direct finger movements. Contrast that with say the Bratcam which in its later versions can go up to 100X on sensor, steps down to 0.03 micron if needed, and provides micrometer control on every axis including all the rotations.

On the other hand, if you're willing to put up with some fiddling, then you can get by with a lot cheaper systems. John Hallmén's breadboard with Proxxon table is one of my favorite examples. Swap in a Raynox 150 plus Nikon CFI BE, put a bigger wheel on the Proxxon to enable smaller increments, allocate the better part of an afternoon to shoot the 375-frame stack (tweak, click, tweak, click, repeat as needed), use the camera and computer you already have, and the blowfly picture could equally well have been made with investment of a few hundred dollars.

My first serious work using focus stacking at 10X was done for literally zero extra cost, using an objective I borrowed from my microscope and a screw table I borrowed from my drill press. It was fiddly in the extreme, but the results look fine. See figures 4 and 6 HERE, and the lacewing egg HERE. It was an educational place to start, but I don't really recommend that approach to other people.

--Rik

ChrisR
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Post by ChrisR »

Dab - yes, go for the Mitty. Then anything poor is YOUR FAULT!


Perhaps we need a FAQ thread entitled "HOW much??"

rjlittlefield
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Post by rjlittlefield »

Dabsmith wrote:Going to order the Mitutoyo 10x and enjoy the 33.5mm WD right off the bat. It'll pay for itself for sure.
One caution on the Mitutoyo: those objectives are easily damaged. You should test immediately on receipt. It would be unusual for a new one to have problems, but used ones are a different story. See http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... hp?t=20594 for my own sad tale.

--Rik

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