Any experience with these microscopes?

JL · Post by JL » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:54 am

I am considering to replace my current petrographical microscope and the more likely candidates are a brand new Motic BA310 pol, fitted with infinite optics, or a Olympus BH2-BHS, from the late ´80s, fitted with SPlan finite objectives.

I wonder if anyone on the forum have working experience with these microscopes and would like to share their weaknesses and strengths.

My current microscope is a chinese made (Pro-Way) that I have been using for about three years. It does show several problems on design, poor materials selection and lousy quality control. Therefore, I am a bit hesitant on acquiring another chinese microscope, although Motic is gaining presence in the market and apparently they produce some microscopes for Zeiss and Leica.

On the other hand, the Olympus BH2 was a very successful product that was widely used in universities and research institutes. However, this microscope line is about 25 years old, and one have to wonder on the use and maintenance that it could have enjoyed over the years, and furthermore, how easy would be to get spare parts or accessories.

Any input would be appreciated, regards.

José L.

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:01 am

Hi José,

For a hobbyist, a pre-owned microscope is the best value for money. A pre-owned microscope will cost 10-30% of the original price, so you can get a research-class microscope (like the BH2) for the price of a new routine microscope. While the optics of microscopes have improved since the 1980s, the mechanical quality has become somewhat worse. If you like the built quality of a "real" microscope, go for a used model. Plus there is the added benefit for the environment of using a second hand equipment.

However, there is the risk involved in buying pre-owned equipment. Since you have microscopy experience already, since shouldn't be a major problem. Just make sure you have a right of return when you buy.

The new Motic BA310 Pol costs $3000? For that price you will get a microscope with pol achromat objectives from any of the five big research microscope manufacturers (Zeiss, Leitz/Leica, Olympus, Nikon, Zeiss Jena). Olympus objectives from the 1980s will still be superior to planachromats from Motic today.

Which model to chose depends mostly on personal preference. The availablility of spare parts isn't generally too bad. It will peak at some point, as the microscopes occasionally break and then get taken apart for spares. The Zeiss Standard System (1950s-1990s) has the best spare part availability of the five named above. A Zeiss Standard pol microscope it is built like a rock and will last another 50 years as long as the optics are not delaminated

Ichthy

Gary W Brown · Post by **Gary W Brown** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:22 am

Hello Jose and all,

I have had the opportunity to work with and on both the microscopes you have mentioned and my vote, for the reasons mentioned by Ichty, is for the Olympus BH series, in which ever form you choose.

Gary

JL · Post by JL » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:54 am

Ichty, Gary, thank for your points of view on the Motic and the Olympus microscopes.

Until now I have been using my pol microscope more like a hobbyist, by analyzing rock thin sections. However, I am now having the opportunity to do some free lance petrographic work, and my current equipment is not up that task.

Both of the microscopes are priced quite similarly, at around $4500 before taxes and, although there is a right of return, shipping costs and re-stocking fees can add to a good amount. That is why I am trying to gather as more information as possible before deciding on a specific model. I was initially looking after a Leica DMLP, quite more expensive that the ones above, but it had a quotation on it and has since been sold, pity.

José L.

Pau · Post by **Pau** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:08 am

I have two Motic student petrographic microscopes about 15yrs old, inferior model with finite optics and achromat objectives and they are decently build but not of great desing. They do their job at the school without any problem, but my much older and hacked Zeiss Standard converted for pol and DIC with Plan fluorite Leitz optics is vastly superior, the only part a bit difficult to find is the intermediate piece to mount the analyzer, but I've used it just dropping an analyzer inside the microscope head without problems until I bought that part.

The linked Motic looks fine, but for $3000 I woldn't buy it

Ichthyophthirius · Post by **Ichthyophthirius** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:19 am

Hi José,

Apologies, I didn't read "petrographic" in your first post. I have modified my reply slightly to reflect this.

Although used pol microscopes are more difficult to get hold of than biological microscopes, the value for money argument is still in favour of a pre-owned instrument. With the Motic, you can't expect a miracle for that price ...

JL · Post by JL » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:29 am

Thank you all for the information provided.

I was also leaning towards the Olympus, particularly for the SPlan objectives. When comparing the N.A. of these lenses with that of current Plan Achromatics you can only guess that the Olympus are a step or two above.

Pitifully one can not "test drive" a microscope before buying it, thus one have to rely on the informed opinion from those with experience, thankfully that kind of person abound in this forum.

José L.

Gary W Brown · Post by **Gary W Brown** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:46 pm

Jose, Since you are in the US I can offer the next best thing to a test drive. That is a connection to several professional microscope service dealers who often have reconditioned instruments in excellent condition. Moderators, if this is outside the limits of the group please amend as necessary.

Gary

JL · Post by JL » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:19 am

Hello Gary.

Thank you for your offer. Actually, the used microscopes that I am considering are from one of those service dealers. I have browsed some 7 web sites from companies offering refurbished microscopes, but petrography capable microscopes are hard to find.

Regards.

José L.

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:27 pm

Although I use a BHS outfitted with DIC and have sets of the Plan Achromats and Plan Apos, this is not really a "slam dunk" call for me. If you can find a BHS outfitted with the components you want and need then yes... I would go with that. But I have noticed that BH2 components, especially ones you would want on your desired scope seem to be nowhere near as common as they used to be. So if it's set up the way you want go for it, but it would make me think twice if you needed to piece it together by tracking down the various individual components. This is certainly a case where a little extra spent with a reputable dealer is very well spent compared to trying to assemble it yourself.

One other thing about BH2 finite optics is the need for corrective eyepieces. Not a big deal for viewing, these are readily available. But the need for corrective (photo)eyepieces can complicate a camera setup. With the finite Olympus one intermediate piece you will need adds an additional 1.25X magnification to the system overall. So you may want to consider the camera you intend to use, check out the connection options and and factor that into your decision as well.

JL · Post by JL » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:26 pm

Hi Charles.

The BH-2 microscope is apparently well fitted for petrographical analysis. However, you got me thinking on the photo eyepiece. Going through the information that I have gathered on this model, I noticed that I would need a NFK type photo eyepiece, being the one best suited for APS-C format the more sought after, and hence the most expensive of the lot.

Now I have a new question for the seller. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Regards.

José L.

Charles Krebs · Post by **Charles Krebs** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:56 pm

Olympus made a 1.67X NFK and a 2.5X NFK (among other more powerful ones). So (with the additional 1.25X) you will end up with either a 2.1X or 3.1X into the camera. Both magnifications are more suitable for a full frame (24x36mm sensor) camera than an APS-C sized sensor. (2.1X is a little "strong" for an APS-C but OK, and is a bit low power for full-frame). You will have a hard time finding a 1.67X NFK for less than $600 (although one did go on Ebay for $460 recently).

You can use lower power "third party" optics (like a 1.6X) for the Motic (Motic makes a 2.5X)... they are available from a good manufacturer such as Qioptic or Diagnostic Instruments or Martin Microscope. But the truth is they may not really cost that much less than that Olympus 1.67X NFK.

Litonotus · Post by **Litonotus** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:07 pm

Motic is definitely not worth its price... It is the best chinese scope but too expensive compared to used big4 stuff.

Couple of days ago I tested chinese model, really very similar to BA410, it is ok, but definitely not high end research model.

harisA · Post by **harisA** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:38 am

Stay away from chinese microscopes.They don't worth the money they ask (brand new) and their optics are very primitive in design.

Protos · Post by **Protos** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:59 am

harisA wrote:Stay away from chinese microscopes.They don't worth the money they ask (brand new) and their optics are very primitive in design.

I disagree
I own both a Zeiss with infinite obj. and a brand new chinese with infinite objectives and they are very close in optical quality.