Come the summer holidays we plan to reconstruct our macro rig. As yet it is lit with 2 energy efficient domestic light bulbs. They work but must be placed right next to the objective to get sufficient light and I am concerned about overheating the objective so we are planning a completely new design.
It will be based around a led panel ceiling light like this one: http://tlz.en.alibaba.com/product/56425 ... _260V.html
This type has all the led's in a ring attached to the edge which is also a heat sink. There is nothing in the center but air and a diffuser panel. The plan is to drill a nice wide hole through the center for the optics.
That is stage 1 which will give a bright steady light for setting up but flash would be better for taking the stack. My thought is to start with a canon 540EZ flash: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-540EZ-f ... true&rt=nc
We will remove the flash tube and use it to power 2 to 4 low powered flash tubes from old non-controlable flashes that will fit inside the light panel. If mixing and matching flash components looks too dodgy we will use a pair of 540EZ's to power their own dismounted tubes.
The battery compartments could be replaced with a power supply but I am not sure that will work.
Ok. So can anybody tell me if this plan is or isn't sound?
Planning lighting rig.
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Thank you Blame for the link to the led panel ceiling light, seems fit for the job.
I used 3 strips with adhesive back and stuck them on a steel ring.
It has plenty of room to insert a diffuser between the ledring and the subject:
Indeed; have you considered using LED-strips?Blame wrote:A neat circle round the outside solves a lot of problems.
I used 3 strips with adhesive back and stuck them on a steel ring.
Likewise...behold prototype 'ILostCount',AndrewC wrote:... I have several prototypes in various stages of construction / destruction.
It has plenty of room to insert a diffuser between the ledring and the subject:
Fred
Canonian@Flickr
Canonian@Flickr
Well yes but when I spotted these ceiling lights I figured it would be a lot less effort to just modify one. They go for something like £17 on Ebay for 18w so I don't think there is a lot to be saved.canonian wrote: Indeed; have you considered using LED-strips?
I used 3 strips with adhesive back and stuck them on a steel ring.
You're right, Blame.Blame wrote:They go for something like £17 on Ebay for 18w so I don't think there is a lot to be saved.
Hard to beat price for an object that can be used almost immediate with minimal modifications.
I hope the light will give you good output and color temperature.
Keep us posted on your progress, and send some results please.
Fred
Canonian@Flickr
Canonian@Flickr
Ok. Now for the flash part of the problem. Has anybody tried using them with a cheap generic power supply like a battery charger and has anybody used one to power multiple flash tubes?
Bearing in mind that the flash will be used at very low power and once every 2 seconds max. We don't plan to go above an effective f/16 with an ISO 160 setting.
Bearing in mind that the flash will be used at very low power and once every 2 seconds max. We don't plan to go above an effective f/16 with an ISO 160 setting.
Ok. Plan Mk#2
We use the one 540EZ flash with tube dismantled and mounted inside the lighting panel to one side but we make it switchable to a ringflash tube mounted centrally taken from something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COBRA-macrofl ... 3a8bc72e79
That would give the options of side lighting or central lighting. As both camera and subject table rotate it doesn't matter too much which side.
I am leaning towards a 15W panel which is designed for a 6 inch cutout and some 15mm depth. But would it give me enough room for the flash tubes? I think they should at least not be touching the front plastic diffuser panel for fear of it melting.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6W-9W-12W-15W ... 1c378dbf8c
We use the one 540EZ flash with tube dismantled and mounted inside the lighting panel to one side but we make it switchable to a ringflash tube mounted centrally taken from something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COBRA-macrofl ... 3a8bc72e79
That would give the options of side lighting or central lighting. As both camera and subject table rotate it doesn't matter too much which side.
I am leaning towards a 15W panel which is designed for a 6 inch cutout and some 15mm depth. But would it give me enough room for the flash tubes? I think they should at least not be touching the front plastic diffuser panel for fear of it melting.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6W-9W-12W-15W ... 1c378dbf8c
Blame, using multiple flash tubes with one high voltage generator and triggering circuit leads you to power distribution problem. There are no two equal flash tubes. Instead of using multiple tubes, you might consider one circular. There are many sizes/power levels starting at 100 Ws. This seller has most of them: 120894308879
Godox uses this concept in their ML-150 ring flash and I'm using it lately with great results (except for one major issue): http://www.linkdelight.com/013203-Godox ... meras.html
However, I'm not recommending buying it since it has design flaw: it doesn't fire every time!
Godox uses this concept in their ML-150 ring flash and I'm using it lately with great results (except for one major issue): http://www.linkdelight.com/013203-Godox ... meras.html
However, I'm not recommending buying it since it has design flaw: it doesn't fire every time!
All things are number - Pythagoras
Um. If I was in US rather than UK that would be an exciting price. As it is import duties and postage would hurt some. However unreliability looks a big issue with automated stacking. We are using manual stacking right now but we have plans.
I figured that multiple flash tubes to one generator might not be as easy as hoped which is why I decided to start with a controllable flash that can regularly be found on Ebay at low prices and was built to a high standard. I now have enough 540EZ's coming to fulfill any plan. It is a bit of a shame because the power is massive overkill.
While a ring flash will solve a lot of problems it won't solve all because circular straight down lighting isn't much good for showing up a textured surface. This is why I wanted a very large ring flash with lighting available from at least one edge. That should give me a strong light at low angle that gradually shades towards the other side without a hard edge.
If the Godex was reliable and cheap here it would be an excellent starting point. I would hack that cable and make it switchable between ring flash and a side flash. As it is I will have to contend with the 540EZ,s which from what info I can find look like a pig to dismantle & reassemble.
I figured that multiple flash tubes to one generator might not be as easy as hoped which is why I decided to start with a controllable flash that can regularly be found on Ebay at low prices and was built to a high standard. I now have enough 540EZ's coming to fulfill any plan. It is a bit of a shame because the power is massive overkill.
While a ring flash will solve a lot of problems it won't solve all because circular straight down lighting isn't much good for showing up a textured surface. This is why I wanted a very large ring flash with lighting available from at least one edge. That should give me a strong light at low angle that gradually shades towards the other side without a hard edge.
If the Godex was reliable and cheap here it would be an excellent starting point. I would hack that cable and make it switchable between ring flash and a side flash. As it is I will have to contend with the 540EZ,s which from what info I can find look like a pig to dismantle & reassemble.
Ok. I have placed my orders:
£10 for a 15W panel light: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121259847907? ... 1423.l2649
£7.33 for a 5V 60W power supply to power 2x 540EZ's: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331097150911? ... 1423.l2648
Going with the 2 side flash solution with potential to add a central ring flash tube at a later date.
Incidentally those light panels look like the would stack with very little modification. I would guess about 1cm for every extra panel. So you could make a 60W panel that was 4.5cm thick for £40. Probably enough power for most rigs although the heat would delaminate an objective easily if used continuously. I an not going for that solution as it would need some sort of a flash circuit to keep the heat down and the spectra isn't as even as a tube flash's.
£10 for a 15W panel light: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121259847907? ... 1423.l2649
£7.33 for a 5V 60W power supply to power 2x 540EZ's: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331097150911? ... 1423.l2648
Going with the 2 side flash solution with potential to add a central ring flash tube at a later date.
Incidentally those light panels look like the would stack with very little modification. I would guess about 1cm for every extra panel. So you could make a 60W panel that was 4.5cm thick for £40. Probably enough power for most rigs although the heat would delaminate an objective easily if used continuously. I an not going for that solution as it would need some sort of a flash circuit to keep the heat down and the spectra isn't as even as a tube flash's.
That 15W panel arrived.... with a 300ma and up to 45V power supply.
It only took me 2 attempts to multiply those two numbers and get 13.5W so I contacted the seller and asked what gived? I was wondering if would simply go up in a puff of smoke if I plugged it in.
The seller didn't know and offered me half my money back. I held out for an explanation and a usable power supply.
Anyway today I stopped waiting and dismantled the light. Outside is a 15W sticker but inside it says 300ma 36V. That is 10.8W. I counted the LED's . 60 so that is about right - and with a little generosity about right for a 12W light. So A little more research and I found that an identical unit is being sold as a 12W light... and it is advertised as having 60 LED's.
Now I know why my new light was so cheap. To the good at least I know the power supply won't be run above the rating on its label. I must just hope the label tells the truth...this time.
Edit.
Ok. Now they are offering me all my money back. Told them I would love it and that I looked forward to seeing their stock advertised with the correct wattage.
Edit 2.
Right.. got my money back for light but they are STILL advertising them with the inflated wattage... and checking on ebay shows other sites doing the same. So how could things get worse? Oh yes. The 12A 5v power supply just arrived and its....10A 5v.
My advice is if you must order from china then up your specification by 20-25% and hope that is the level of their dishonesty.
Sigh. They work so hard and sell so cheap because nobody can trust the goods.
Edit 3.
If things look bad check carefully that they ain't worse. That power supply can't be used at all cause it is 200-220V input voltage. UK voltage is 240...so did I order the wrong thing? I rushed back to check the ad.... and no. It was offered as 200-240v. Arrrgh.
Edit 4.
Finally gave up negotiating with the supplier of the power supply when I realised they spoke very little English and hadn't a clue what I was saying. Difficult to really express your feelings when the other guy is apparently using a translation program.
They offered about 40% refund. Escalated case and Ebay gave me it all back. Well, a win but still no power supply. Will order from a different trader and hope.... Hmm. No I won't. I will use the 5v output from an old computer power supply. If the lighting rig works THEN I will pay good money for a pretty one.
So why all these edits? I don't wan't to keep bumping up the post till I have real progress to report rather than moans. Call it a diary for now.
It only took me 2 attempts to multiply those two numbers and get 13.5W so I contacted the seller and asked what gived? I was wondering if would simply go up in a puff of smoke if I plugged it in.
The seller didn't know and offered me half my money back. I held out for an explanation and a usable power supply.
Anyway today I stopped waiting and dismantled the light. Outside is a 15W sticker but inside it says 300ma 36V. That is 10.8W. I counted the LED's . 60 so that is about right - and with a little generosity about right for a 12W light. So A little more research and I found that an identical unit is being sold as a 12W light... and it is advertised as having 60 LED's.
Now I know why my new light was so cheap. To the good at least I know the power supply won't be run above the rating on its label. I must just hope the label tells the truth...this time.
Edit.
Ok. Now they are offering me all my money back. Told them I would love it and that I looked forward to seeing their stock advertised with the correct wattage.
Edit 2.
Right.. got my money back for light but they are STILL advertising them with the inflated wattage... and checking on ebay shows other sites doing the same. So how could things get worse? Oh yes. The 12A 5v power supply just arrived and its....10A 5v.
My advice is if you must order from china then up your specification by 20-25% and hope that is the level of their dishonesty.
Sigh. They work so hard and sell so cheap because nobody can trust the goods.
Edit 3.
If things look bad check carefully that they ain't worse. That power supply can't be used at all cause it is 200-220V input voltage. UK voltage is 240...so did I order the wrong thing? I rushed back to check the ad.... and no. It was offered as 200-240v. Arrrgh.
Edit 4.
Finally gave up negotiating with the supplier of the power supply when I realised they spoke very little English and hadn't a clue what I was saying. Difficult to really express your feelings when the other guy is apparently using a translation program.
They offered about 40% refund. Escalated case and Ebay gave me it all back. Well, a win but still no power supply. Will order from a different trader and hope.... Hmm. No I won't. I will use the 5v output from an old computer power supply. If the lighting rig works THEN I will pay good money for a pretty one.
So why all these edits? I don't wan't to keep bumping up the post till I have real progress to report rather than moans. Call it a diary for now.
No progress for now. I have discovered that a project based on cheap ordered parts had best be planned way in advance.
Truth is I got sidetracked converting cinema lenses into STF camera lenses. It's not all badfor the macroscope side of things. I now have a 105mm f/2 cinelux which looks to have great potentual as a full frame tube lens. Just about the right length for use with reversed enlarger or microfilm lenses.
Anyway. What little advice I can give is to make sure you are buying one with the leds around the edges and ignor the rated output. It won't be the truth.
One update I can give. They are not empty in the center as I supposed. The leds feed into a transparent plastic disk that presumably spreads the light more evenly. This in addition to the translucent front panel. You could remove it if you are after a little more contrast but if it stays it will need a hole for the optics and a slice off the side for each of any flash tubes.
Truth is I got sidetracked converting cinema lenses into STF camera lenses. It's not all badfor the macroscope side of things. I now have a 105mm f/2 cinelux which looks to have great potentual as a full frame tube lens. Just about the right length for use with reversed enlarger or microfilm lenses.
Anyway. What little advice I can give is to make sure you are buying one with the leds around the edges and ignor the rated output. It won't be the truth.
One update I can give. They are not empty in the center as I supposed. The leds feed into a transparent plastic disk that presumably spreads the light more evenly. This in addition to the translucent front panel. You could remove it if you are after a little more contrast but if it stays it will need a hole for the optics and a slice off the side for each of any flash tubes.
Last edited by Blame on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:45 am, edited 3 times in total.